MP5 vs. M16

[rtr]

I have an HK94 that has been SBRed to look like an MP5, thinking about getting a full auto trigger pack for it. Friend of mine mentioned getting an M16 trigger pack instead. Just curious what folks prefer and why. The MP5 pack can be put into other HK rifles in .223 and .308, but the M16 pack can be left in the lower and other uppers can be put on in .223, 9mm, etc.

So bottom line which is more fun to shoot?

[Catfish]

Shot 'em both, I like the MP5. It's the all time fun sub gun.

[M.E.Anglin]

MP5 real smooth, but perfer M16 for being able to "hunker down on it" feeling like I have more control with it

[Chills1994]

I prefer the FA MP5, especially with a muzzle can out in front.

DAMHIKT

[Flatland Shooter]

The MP5 pack can be put into other HK rifles in .223 and .308,

I didn't know this was an option. I assume you need to Class 3 the trigger pack and its not dedicated to just one gun. Correct?

Are these trigger packs available (with the Class 3 stamp) to us regular folks or is it post ban for dealers and LE only?

If legal, where do I stand in line to get one? (Gee, just in time for Christmas!)

Bill

[rtr]

I didn't know this was an option. I assume you need to Class 3 the trigger pack and its not dedicated to just one gun. Correct?

Are these trigger packs available (with the Class 3 stamp) to us regular folks or is it post ban for dealers and LE only?

The sear itself is registered as an NFA item, often in more than one caliber. So for an HK you can move the trigger pack from one gun to another with minor changes for appropriate caliber. I'm not as familiar with the M16 option but I believe you can leave the trigger pack in the lower (don't know if the trigger or lower is registered) and then put different caliber uppers on it. The one I'm looking at for an HK is for regular folks, on a Form 4. Cost for just the trigger pack is around $13K right now plus tax stamps and transfer fees.

If legal, where do I stand in line to get one? (Gee, just in time for Christmas!)

www.sturmgewehr.com has listings for NFA items.

[chuckbradley]

I have an MP5 with a cmore on it. Really fast, accurate & reliable. Great for subgun matches we do at Ashland.

I asked ATF about taking the trigger pak out and putting it in a HK91 just for funs & giggles. they said you cant take the trigger pak out and install it in another gun since it would leave you with an unregistered short barreled rifle. I guess you could register the receiver for a short barreled rifle also.

308 full auto isnt as uncontrollable as some would lead you to believe.

I dont have an M16 but do have an M2 carbine and Thompson. Both fun to shoot. M16 would be next unless an opportunity on a belt fed comes first.

[rtr]

If your HK is already a registered SBR before the trigger pack goes in then you should be legal to remove the trigger pack and put it in another gun if the other gun is registered on it's own as well.

Edited December 16, 2007 by rtr

[GentlemanJim]

I like the HK MP5SD the best....any registered auto sear is the class 3 item..and can move to any reciever.

I think the HK is more reliable in 9mm than the M16...and 9mm is just as much fun to shoot as 223 at a fraction of price.

And you can get an HK 91 clone real reasonable..I have one built under HK licence then you can rock on 308

Jim

[J-Ho]

Get one of each. Then you can charge in shooting one in each hand off the hip. Then maybe you would be qualified to be a governor.

Seriously, the only thing I can stand about auto sears is $10,000 or more for a very small piece of steel. Aye caramba!

Have fun with whichever one you choose.

[hitman]

I have both and a M16 RR is more versitle and cheaper.

The going price on a MP is 16 to 25 depending on what you get, sear, factory or SDMP.

M16 RR are averaging 10 to 14 (baring Colts).

With the extra cash you save on a M16 you can get a 9mm upper (do your lower a favor and use KNS pins and a ramped bolt) & a dedicated 22 upper.

Now for the down side, if you ever have a blow up with an M16 you could loose the whole thing as the reciver is what is registered.

MP5 (sear), as long as the sear is undamaged the rest of the pack can be replaced as the sear is the registerd piece.

One upside of a MP registerd sear is it can be moved from weapon to weapon as long as it is registered in that caliber, word of caution here, if you do this and any are shorter than 16" DONT posses any non registered trigger pack that will fit it or you could find yourself on the wrong side of the bars if caught.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

[Chills1994]

rtr wrote:

Cost for just the trigger pack is around $13K right now plus tax stamps and transfer fees.

Holy freakin' H-E- double hockey sticks batman!

(thread drift/rant on)

That's why I don't like the government meddling in things. All it does is substantially jack up the price and create a lot of red tape.

Wasn't that the current President who signed that '86 ban, or am I confusing that with the 922 business (which is also BS too)?

(mode off)

[GentlemanJim]

Before 1986 ..an autosear cost less than the tax stamp

Jim

[hitman]

Ah those were the days, cheap machine guns & cheap ammo.

[Chills1994]

(Thread drift on slightly)

Okay, the year was 1986. I was only 14 at the time. I was kind of into guns, but I didn't know anything about the gun laws or the impending legislation or the current events of the time. I mean I was 14 at the time. It's not like I had a job where I could spend my money on all the cool toys. Even if I did have the money I still wouldn't have been of legal age to purchase it anyway.

1. The 1986 ban is a full fledged law, right?

2. Passed by both houses and signed by the Prez, right?

3. Was there some horrific shooting incident with a full auto gun that preceded that legislation (kind of a knee jerk reaction)?

4. I take it that there was no provision of a "sunset" clause like there was with the AWB?

5. The 922, as I understand it, is strictly an executive order signed by whoever was the Prez at the time, right?

6. Why hasn't somebody or some entity picked up the ball and ran with it to argue the Constitutionality of that executive order and get it over turned?

That's all for now. I feel cheated now because I was just a kid at the time and didn't know anything about it. And if I did, I probably wouldn't have grasped the far reaching implications such a ban would create (cha-ching!).

(drift off)

[gunsablazin]

Just for grins I'll take the MP5 anytime.

[HI5-O]

I have access to both plus a few others

I do believe if you go the HK route, you still need the f/a bolt carriers. The trigger packs alone won't make a semi...full

Same for the M16 but you can at least swap the bolt carriers with the lower unless you want to shoot 9mm (different carrier).

If I lived in a place where I could own my own class 3, I would get a pistol caliber carbine first then an M4

[Matthew_Mink]

Definitely go with the full auto AR-15/M-16, many more choices in uppers and calibers. Plus it is user friendly and ergonomic. The MP5 has the cool factor, but the controls are horrible.

[Madcap Magician]

MP5 SD, who needs anything else?

[-JQ-]

HK all the way. True not as many accessories at gun shows... but it is a great platform.

Yes your host would need a FA bolt carrier which is no big deal. Vector clones come with FA carriers. Keep in maind though a clone is NOT an HK. I have one (Vector V51) and many others have good clones but when shooting with others who are shooting "HK" the ones that tend to malfunction are typically clones of some ilk...and there are some BAD clones.

I don't find the controls to be horrible though the SEF lowers are tougher than the 4 position ones to manipulate. Although I can't use the 4 pos ones too well as I have way more experience with 3 positions and they operated opposite of one another...training issue I suppose.

My vote - MP5 best rifle ever...(thought I'd stir the pot)

HK_mtbr

[Derek45]

Definitely go with the full auto AR-15/M-16, many more choices in uppers and calibers. Plus it is user friendly and ergonomic. The MP5 has the cool factor, but the controls are horrible.

+1 M16 for the versatility

The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, aka, the McClure-Volkmer Act had a lot of positive things in it, limiting the ATF visits to FFL, allowing interstate long gun and ammo purchaces, etc. preventing the Govt. from making a list of gun owners from AFT records, etc.etc.etc....

In the last stages of the debate a New Jersey Democrat snuck in an amendment to made it illegal for 'civilians' to own fully automatic firearms that were manufactured AFTER May 1986.

Exsisting machineguns could continue to be owned and sold, according to the NFA(1934), but the limited supply drove the prices WAY up.

"sec. 922R" is a separate matter that as to do with a 1989 *import* ban on evil looking SEMI auto rifles. If you add enough US made parts, you can replace the ugly thumb-hole stock with a pistol grip sillyness.

This killed importation of semi AUG's HK94's, etc.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Derek45

[rtr]

Well I opted for the full auto trigger pack for my HK94, probably get a suppressor as well. Now just have to wait for the paperwork to go through.

[HI5-O]

You'll love it and so will your friends and new friends

[-JQ-]

Very Nice!!

I tell all my "new" friends they can shoot as much as they want to buy. When they find out ammo prices they tend not to "over do" my gun.

BTW - for some real fun. Pick up an HK91 as a host for your trigger pack...It'll sure put a smile on your face trying to do a mag dump and keep 'er on target.

If you don't already visit there... www.hkpro.com has all sort of info and good boards too.

Congrats!!

[Rocket35]

I would go with the MP5