Standards Stage survey

[Bret Heidkamp]

Please add your opinion if you want - although there is another thread on that already located here

Why do we have standards thread

Edited December 6, 2007 by Bret Heidkamp

[AlamoShooter]

my vote was NO Way to both. I do not like the Mandatory part of the survey. I think it would be good and even post that a 50 yard standard "May be added" just before the match starts.

Or have a surprises standard stage

I like the 50 yard stages. but the next thing to follow is a mandatory 2yard stage with 16 targets no more than 2 yards form the shooter

Thread drift

Yes ...Thats the ticket a new Standards stage with a runway and all targets at 2 yards No 1 yard

yep Lets call it "Running Da Line" 16 targets at 1 yard spaced 18" apart with a no shoot set 90 degrees to the shooting line so you have to move to the far end to reach the last target. That would be a shooting line 16 yards long.

I would suck at that one lets go back to 50 yards Im good at that

Edited December 6, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[ipscbob]

Wow...I am shocked by the initial results. I hate to shoot syandards stages, BORING!

[Jim Norman]

I sort of agree with Alamo here. I think that what we really need is or are stages with hard shots at a distance. Set up a COF where there are both near and far shots. Put a couple plates out at 50 or a couple poppers.

We could set up a match of all standards and classifer like stages, but it would not be fun, it might test certain skills, but it would likely make next years schedule a lot easier to set.

Hard stages yes, standards fine, but not required in every match.

Jim

[IPSCDRL]

I guess I'm a traditionalist. I think the national championships should include a standards stage. 25 yards may be OK but the 50 yard ones really test the shooter's ability.

Michael.

[Bret Heidkamp]

OK, I see the error of my ways.

I just edited the poll to be "included" rather than "mandatory" <-- my brain wasn't thinking this morning about the impact of a word choice.

That being said, I don't particularly think standards are boring. They have their own nuances and stressors - as much as any SH / WH stand and shoot classifier. They're just different, and take a different setup & mental approach to do well. Historically, I've been fine on them. I like things everyone seems to be scared of (not the people on this website necessarily, but you have to admit at a major match plenty of people are obviously concerned at having to shoot standards at 50).

One thing that has gone by the wayside along with standards is the old mandatory drop to prone. (and the drop to kneeling) It's one more thing to master and it's different from the buzzer at 50 yds vs. in a field course low port. Your NPA becomes just a wee bit more important.

5 years ago I would not have held this attitude - but now that standards are gone, and it's just field courses holding one prop after another... there isn't much separating those that *really* practice everything vs. just hosing. I for one, am tired of picking up a briefcase, putting it into a basket, rub your tummy and pat your head... I think those stages are pretty lame. However, dont' get me wrong. I also really enjoy shooting on the move, and do OK at it.

Single poppers and plates at 50 yds are a different beast - unless we're talking a Bianchi rack at 50. That would be interesting.

[AlamoShooter]

Hey Now I already set my vote and you change the candidates. Should? and Manditory ? How could you get that mixed up ... Thats like ..Like

[Front Man]

Wow...I am shocked by the initial results. I hate to shoot syandards stages, BORING!

Fixed Time should relieve the Boredom!!!

FM

[wide45]

Bad poll

I'd rather see standards than the dark house, but the course of fire should never be the same.

You can have great standards at 6 yards, or 60. Mix it up!

[Bret Heidkamp]

Bad poll

I'd rather see standards than the dark house, but the course of fire should never be the same.

You can have great standards at 6 yards, or 60. Mix it up!

Ouch! Bad poll? Hey, I'm just tryin' !!

As I recall, the 50 yard standards have been different. I remember different par times, different types of targets (one time there was hardcover - that's a pucker) and stacking in some years vs. not being allowed to stack. This is all at Area or National matches.

I do not recall having seen a shorter "standards" type of course, but I did put the option in the poll. Sorry I didn't include whatever particular distance you are referring to - you mean to vote for "mix it up" - fine.

6 yard standards? How would that work? Would you please explain your stage concept, sounds interesting.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Bret Heidkamp

[Bret Heidkamp]

Hey Now I already set my vote and you change the candidates. Should? and Manditory ? How could you get that mixed up ... Thats like ..Like

?? Uh... I changed "be mandatory" to "be included"

[EZ Bagger]

Should they? Sure, but definitely not an every year thing because it is a pretty boring stage.

[ipscbob]

I sort of agree with Alamo here. I think that what we really need is or are stages with hard shots at a distance. Set up a COF where there are both near and far shots. Put a couple plates out at 50 or a couple poppers.

Jim, I dont have an issue with this. What you are talking about is just good stage design practice. A good field course should have a mix of near and far targets. What I am saying is that these skills can be tested in more interesting ways than in a stand and shoot standards stage.

[Catfish]

I hate standards. With a passion. In fact, of the matches I tossed over this past season, every one was lost on the standards stage.

However, I voted yes to the 50 yard par time options on both.

[Merlin Orr]

I hate the long range standards....But I think they are a great test. I shot a 50 (or so) yard standards recently at a club match and did as well as anyone there - as I recall anyway.. Scored about 20% nationally. What a testimony.......

I need to work on my trigger control.

[kimel]

At a level II match in 2006 we set up a 50M standards, fixed time. There were no bored people shooting that stage.

[Barrettone]

I guess you really need to look at what the purpose of a MATCH really is...It is to determine the MOST WELL-ROUNDED SHOOTER. By having some freestyle run-n-gun, mixed with some stand-and-shoot, high-to-low and near-to-far transitions, and creating some tight-angled shots with some out-in-the-open shots too, you tend to get the cream to rise to the top. Only the most balanced shooter is going to win, and that is really what we are all about...isn't it? I know that I can burn down a stand-and-shoot, but introduce some movement and activated props with tight shots, and that is where I personally get separated from the pack. This is why I don't shoot a lot of classifiers, because I know that I am just a lowly "B" shooter, and that if I shoot too many of them, I'll bust out into "A" or worse yet "M", and then get my butt kicked at a match by lower classed shooters (that happens enough as it is). However, there are those, for whatever reason, freeze-up when they shoot classifiers (standards) but can run-n-gun with the big dogs. I think that standards need to be a part of the test at all matches big or small, but no match should be lopsided toward any particular challenge. There are many GM's that have achilles heels in some areas, and if they are not exploited, the match can easily be "handed" to someone simply because it catered to their strengths and not their weaknesses. If the goal is to find a true champion, then we need to keep them as part of the "match".

My .02

[Micah]

I guess you really need to look at what the purpose of a MATCH really is...It is to determine the MOST WELL-ROUNDED SHOOTER.

It pains me to agree with Socko...one ofthe few that have seen me completely melt down at a level III match ....

But I agree. Well rounded is the key word. So you can hose down the close stuff, and pin down the poppers at 25yds...but how goes it with L O N G shots?

I wouldn't be rushing my app for an all standards match, but you must admit...it certainly does separate the men/women from the boys/gals.

[ipscbob]

I guess you really need to look at what the purpose of a MATCH really is...It is to determine the MOST WELL-ROUNDED SHOOTER.

Interesting. For me the purpose is to have some fun on the weekends. I have enough stress in my job. As soon as it becomes work and not fun, I will be looking for something new. To each his own I guess

[JFD]

I didn't vote. Standards aren't all about 25 yards or 50 yards, yet you want to only include standards with these distances?

Back when I was a SS L-10 shooter, the stage I was most likely to win would be a standard with mandatory reloads...the more the better.

I would vote for standards to be suggested at all big matches, but not limited to the few with 25 - 50 yards shots.

[boz1911]

I look at our sport as having some reality based concepts. Scenarios are presented that sorta resemble real life situations. Standards are fun and cool but how often do we shoot at 50 yards with a pistol? Where's the realism? If we going to shoot at 50 yards then (as I would do) let's use use our scoped 454's, 460's or 500's. 50 yards with a red dot is not out of the question, but iron sighted guns, come on, where does that really fit in? Don't see a reality based test there.

I voted for the 25 yard standards, seems more of a fair test to all.

All that being said I have shot my Limited gun at 100 yards using a tree as a rest and was able to keep all the shots on paper.

Just my 2 cents!

[CDRODA396]

I voted yes to 50 yd, fixed time tradition for both. I like standards stages for the same reason I have found most people dont like them, they are hard! Its been my experience that a lot of USPSA shooters are intimately familiar with where the bullet is going out to 25+/- yds, but have no real clue as to where the bullet is going at 50+ yds and when they encounter a standards stage with some long shots so they end up "guessing" where the point of aim should be to hit the target.

The second Saturday of the month local match around here almost always has a standards stage and it always challenges you to really focus on sight picture and trigger control, which only helps you become a better shooter in the long term...My dos centavos!

[LPatterson]

I voted for 25 yards because any target father out is just a blur. Bifocals are a b!tch and this forum express how important the front sight is so put the front sight into the blur.

[Front Man]

I look at our sport as having some reality based concepts. Scenarios are presented that sorta resemble real life situations. Standards are fun and cool but how often do we shoot at 50 yards with a pistol? Where's the realism? If we going to shoot at 50 yards then (as I would do) let's use use our scoped 454's, 460's or 500's. 50 yards with a red dot is not out of the question, but iron sighted guns, come on, where does that really fit in? Don't see a reality based test there.

I voted for the 25 yard standards, seems more of a fair test to all.

All that being said I have shot my Limited gun at 100 yards using a tree as a rest and was able to keep all the shots on paper.

Just my 2 cents!

I have shot a skunk @ 86 yards (Rough; I walked it off.) with my old single stack Open gun.

Now tell me THAT isnt Practical!

FM

[Bret Heidkamp]

On the way to a Nationals, we stopped in Butte to pick up another shooter. Everyone wanted to check their zeros at the last minute, so we stopped at the range there. I was lucky enough to hit a gong at over 400 yds. with my Open gun on the first shot. Immediately unloaded and took the gun off, tossed it into my range bag! Proceeded to watch my two friends shoot mag after mag trying to hit that gong. It was cool. (and no, I'm not voting for 400 yd standards...)