Speed Detection Radar

[RacerX1166]

In keeping with insuring we are not discussing ways to break the law, let's say that I have an interest in understanding when I'm being exposed to police radar. I have a Valentine V1 to let me know when I might be exposed to this element.

However this evening, when travelling the PA Turnpike, I was apparently exposed to a new type of radar that my V1 was unable to detect. I know I was exposed to this type of radar because of the chat that I had with the nice state trooper (and the PA Staters are all very courteous and professional, which didn't surprise me) through my car window. Since he was nice enough not to give me a piece of paper requiring me to send large sums of money, I decided it wouldn't be in my best interest to ask what new kind of radar he was using.

Does anyone know of this new type of radar being used that doesn't appear to be detected by existing units?

TIA

[D.Hayden]

Are you sure it wasn't a Laser (Ladar)?

[HoMiE]

Was it lidar (laser)? It is pretty much instant and no early warning with radar detectors.

I was not as fortunate as you were. Officer wanted my autograph and I had to go see some lady in a black robe.

Cheack out radardetector.net for more information.

[RacerX1166]

My V1 picks up Laser and radar and I know it was a radar gun because I could see it hanging off the side of the car when he was in his car admiring the back of mine.

I know the thing was working because it was picking up the safety signs on radar and picked up a laser whiff on the way out (from an active cruise control system).

[HoMiE]

My V1 picks up Laser and radar and I know it was a radar gun because I could see it hanging off the side of the car when he was in his car admiring the back of mine.

I know the thing was working because it was picking up the safety signs on radar and picked up a laser whiff on the way out (from an active cruise control system).

I guess they have "Stalker" radar systems now or instant-on type radar/laser that leaves little or no warning.

I just cruise now (at least whatever the speed limit is).

[JThompson]

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/noiserad.htm

[n2ipsc]

The V-1 is, fundamentally, a 1991 design, which pre-dates Ka band (yes, I know, there have been software updates through the years). They are reputed to have excellent X-band performance (the predominant unit in use a decade ago), and good K-band performance (more modern), but weak Ka-band performance, particularly in around-curve tests. It's reportedly weaker than its high-end competitors (BEL and Escort) on the two most commonly used frequencies, 34.7 GHz and 35.5 GHz, which are used by about 95 percent of all Ka-band police radar guns

The metal case/chassis can be problematic, too, when it gets hot (say, high-mounted with no A/C).

So, combine a hot day (?) and an instant-on Ka-band unit around a curve (?) and...surprise...

I'd bet you lunch that, had you asked, it was a Ka-band unit that nailed you...although the presence of a radar horn doesn't necessarily mean it was active and you might have been LIDAR'd, too (did they write anything on your party favor that might indicate?)...

How old is your unit?

[HoMiE]

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/noiserad.htm

I guess the "stalker" radar systems use the similar technology in that the frequency changes so detectors can't pick them up.

If it's not one thing, it's another.

[RacerX1166]

Unit's 3-4 years old and it was a cool night (PA in November). It was picking up Ka earlier from people's active cruise. To my knowledge, PA hasn't approved LIDAR yet so I don't think that was it.

Wife's got some contacts at the State Police so I should find out for sure on Monday; was hoping someone might already know since I just don't like being surprised that way on the way home from a nice family oriented weekend.

I'm sure it was my 86 year old grandmother's presence in the front seat that helped me not have to pay a fine.

[n2ipsc]

...I'm sure it was my 86 year old grandmother's presence in the front seat that helped me not have to pay a fine...

Unfair competitive advantage!

[Dave Gundry]

I have never had a problem with my V1, nor have I ever heard of friends that have them having problems - except for detecting at large vertical angles (i.e. high bridge or helicopter/plane), which mine seems to do very well.

I would be VERY willing to bet that if your V1 didn't go off, and if it was mounted properly (up high) with no tint or metallic obstructions, then the cop DIDN'T actually use his radar/laser on you. In some states, they are just allowed to 'eyeball' your speed anyway.

[Flexmoney]

Just because you got pulled over doesn't mean you get hit with any type of speed detection device.

[RacerX1166]

Just because you got pulled over doesn't mean you get hit with any type of speed detection device.

The more I replay the events, the more I think you may be right. He was a good 15 yards off the side of the road, nose angled slightly toward the highway. His radar gun was mounted on the side of the car, meaning it was pointing more away from me than toward me when I went by since they shoot their beams backward. He may not have used anything to run my speed, plus, not having a warning from the detector, I did the rookie thing of jumping on the brakes when I saw him. That probably sealed the deal on him pulling me over.

Still checking with my source at the State Police next week though. With the exception of having a new open gun show up at my door, I'm not a big fan of surprises.

[G-ManBart]

I have never had a problem with my V1, nor have I ever heard of friends that have them having problems - except for detecting at large vertical angles (i.e. high bridge or helicopter/plane), which mine seems to do very well.

I would be VERY willing to bet that if your V1 didn't go off, and if it was mounted properly (up high) with no tint or metallic obstructions, then the cop DIDN'T actually use his radar/laser on you. In some states, they are just allowed to 'eyeball' your speed anyway.

There is a chance that there was an airplane tracking him and relaying the speed to the trooper on the ground...pretty common now.

The other thing that most people have never heard is that the speed detection device is used to support and verify the trooper's eyeball estimate of your vehicle's speed. During training you learn to estimate speed within a very narrow margin of error. I know way back when I got certified on radar and lidar, I could normally get within 2 or 3mph and anything more and I'd be mad at myself. It gets harder as the speeds go up, but it's still pretty surprising how accurate you can get at it.

[OpnBlstr]

Don't forget about those big wide white lines painted across the highways just after onramps.

They let cops sit up there with a stopwatch and clock you with no EM radiation you can detect. Plus radar and laser jamming devices don't work. BTW, radar jamming is illegal everywhere and several states have outlawed laser jammers (OK is one).

This is why a few years there was a radio detector introduced to the market that searched for the specific frequencies that linked a cop's handheld radio with his car radio. Even when he's in his car that link is active and emitting periodically.

Those white lines on the road are also used by planes who relay violations to ground units waiting sometimes miles ahead of you. As long as the air unit doesn't lose sight of you the ticket sticks - even ten minutes ahead! If they read your tag with binoculars and radio it ahead they are free to hunt their next target.

As far as radar goes, Stalker Ka with instant on is nearly indefensible if the cop knows what he's doing and he's hunting carefully.

[Dave Gundry]

Don't forget about those big wide white lines painted across the highways just after onramps.

They let cops sit up there with a stopwatch and clock you with no EM radiation you can detect. Plus radar and laser jamming devices don't work. BTW, radar jamming is illegal everywhere and several states have outlawed laser jammers (OK is one).

This is why a few years there was a radio detector introduced to the market that searched for the specific frequencies that linked a cop's handheld radio with his car radio. Even when he's in his car that link is active and emitting periodically.

Those white lines on the road are also used by planes who relay violations to ground units waiting sometimes miles ahead of you. As long as the air unit doesn't lose sight of you the ticket sticks - even ten minutes ahead! If they read your tag with binoculars and radio it ahead they are free to hunt their next target.

As far as radar goes, Stalker Ka with instant on is nearly indefensible if the cop knows what he's doing and he's hunting carefully.

Planes and stopwatches may be ok, unless he says you're doing 205

(a bike was caught here supposedly doing 205 a few years ago - bike was later proven on a dyno to be able to do no more than 170).

Instant on is usually only used to supplement another device or means - so far, they are not very accurate.

[Kingman]

this is interesting discussion. as for timing lets think of our reaction times, how accurate can a stopwatch be.

[Flexmoney]

Probably pretty accurate. It's not a reaction time really...as you get to see things in motion before you hit the button.

[srodriguez1101]

Did your Radar Detector give you any warning signal during the approach or after you passed him? Was it a gun type or was it hard mounted to the vehicle. Both Radar and Lidar are gun type. Radar and VASCAR are vehicle hard mounted and also record speeds to DVD. Some of the new Lidars take a photo of your car now with the speed in the photo. There is also something called VASCAR which is time and distance using a computer.

Visual

Average

Speed

Computer

And

Recorder

[RacerX1166]

Did your Radar Detector give you any warning signal during the approach or after you passed him? Was it a gun type or was it hard mounted to the vehicle. Both Radar and Lidar are gun type. Radar and VASCAR are vehicle hard mounted and also record speeds to DVD. Some of the new Lidars take a photo of your car now with the speed in the photo. There is also something called VASCAR which is time and distance using a computer.

Visual

Average

Speed

Computer

And

Recorder

No warning whatsoever from the detector, which was doing fine at picking up the other K band sources you run across in PA (the silly traffic signs that always have a gun on) plus the Ka band emitters such as active cruise controls from other vehicles.

If he clocked me, it was by radar. It was dark outside, pretty much precluding VASCAR or timing via aircraft. Granted, it can be done but I know for a fact that budget cuts have greatly reduced the number of aircraft speed patrols in the state and he did not have a vantage point to see me cross two marks. I saw the hard mounted gun on the side of his car, meaning radar. Staters use radar because they can in PA, since locals can't use radar - only VASCAR.

Will be calling Valentine tomorrow to see what they know plus having my wife pull in a favor from her PA State Police friends and will report back. You know, just for education purposes.

[bgary]

There is a chance that there was an airplane tracking him and relaying the speed to the trooper on the ground...pretty common now.

If he didn't get a "party favor", it probably wasn't a plane. In my experience (!), if Officer Friendly goes to all the trouble of rolling out on a plane vector, he's already decided to write.

ymmv

b

[Zerwas]

I'd be willing to bet you were talking to the trooper as a result of a lidar clock. It sends out pulses in a very narrow fashion and unless the lidar is pointed at you, you'd never know one was in the area. It's not like a radar that has a wider beam. For example, at 1,000 feet the lidar pulse "box" is only 3ft X 3ft.

[chuckbradley]

Plus radar and laser jamming devices don't work.

I am not so sure about that. My former brother in law took me for a ride in his new car. He is a Kentucky State Trooper. A black Mercedes was coming towards us getting it. He tried clocking him and he was surprised when it wouldn't work. He couldn't understand why he couldn't get a reading. He wasn't on duty anyway so no big deal. He clocked the next car just fine, gave them a warning and let em go. I would like to know what that Mercedes had. I am not sure what system the State Police use. I know they have a button to push so you get no advance warning unless he is clocking somebody in front of you first. That system made radar detectors obsolete years ago since they wouldnt push the button unless they had you anyway.

[bountyhunter]

Was it lidar (laser)? It is pretty much instant and no early warning with radar detectors.

I was not as fortunate as you were. Officer wanted my autograph and I had to go see some lady in a black robe.

Cheack out radardetector.net for more information.

That's what they all use now. You can use your radar detectors for paperweights because they are useless.

[bountyhunter]

My V1 picks up Laser and radar and I know it was a radar gun because I could see it hanging off the side of the car when he was in his car admiring the back of mine.

Even if it is radar, it may be the "burst" type that only shoot when they clock and the beam is narrow.