want2race Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Lead. Cast Lead. Can't afford anything else, unless I build some more guns... I can buy x3 as many lead as I can anything else. Switching from 180gr Bear Creeks (no longer available) to 170gr SWC .40's. Looking for load data using Universal Clays. I went back as far page 9 via the search engine. I have info using WST but I don't know how close that is to UC. The SWC's are a SNUG fit as they are .402. I've already opened up the throat a bit due to the .401 moly's and the .402's are still snug. BUC is supposed to be right on for major PF. Hope the smoke isn't as bad as I'm expecting. If I can get 400 rounds between barrel scrubbing without much loss in accuracy I'm buying 10k of these. I had been loading the UC to 4.8 and hitting around 950 fps. I need to hit 1000fps now. Anyone have any data on hand for 170's with UC? I've loaded up 10 of each; 4.8, 5.0 and 5.2. Just curious if I need to keep going, 5.4, 5.6, and 5.8. ..and I'm starting to not like my Lyman digital scale. Fluctuates like my mood without caffeine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Lasercast manual shows 5.0 grs UC with a 170 gr SWC at 1.135 at 1065 fps with a 5" barrel, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Hodgdon's 2007 Annual Manual shows for a 170 grain XTP: start - 5.6 grains UC for 1008 fps; max 6.3 grains UC for 1097 fps. This is from a 4" barrel at 1.125" OAL. From the seventh edition Horndy manual for their 180 grain lead bullet, start is 3.8 grains UC for 750 fps; max is 5.3 grains UC for 950 fps, same barrel length and OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thanks for the input! I'll stick to the 5.0 and 5.2 and see what it does over the chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Not cause you're cheap, simply, you are aware of the pricing enviroment surrounding an IPSC shooter, just part of the Zen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Not cause you're cheap, simply, you are aware of the pricing enviroment surrounding an IPSC shooter, just part of the Zen..... and because he is cheap lol Let me know how it goes and I'll get some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolduckboy Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I know a shooter that did cast his own and was like either a .10 or .01 off in all it bullets, don't know full details, but most that batch of bullets tumbled, badly, real bad but it made a freakin big hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 It is possible to cast very nice bullets. You need to use a good alloy and get an average weight for each batch. I have cast bullets for years and have been quite happy with cast bullets in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 You will be able to shoot longer with Unique than you will with Universal, Universal is very hot and leads barrels much more quickly than Unique. Burn rate is about the same, charge weights will be the same, and we can't even begin to talk cleanliness when using plain cast lead so any comparison just won't fly. The problem with most commercial cast bullets is that they are WAY too hard and the hard lube used so that the bullets look nice when they arrive doesn't work well at all. If you can get a semi-custom bullet that is 12-15 Brinell and uses a soft lube like LBT Blue you shouldn't have any leading at all and extremely good accuracy. You can get some extra mileage out of commercial cast bullets by coating them with Lee liquid Alox. Thin it with mineral spirits to the thickness of hot syrup, and coat the bullets with a VERY thin coating, JUST enough to put a light gold tone to the silver color of the bullets. It helps a lot, and you can lube 8-10K 40 bullets with one bottle of lube using it this way. It takes about 10 minutes to lube 2000 bullets and about 8 hours for them to dry completely. The downside? Isn't there always a downside? You will need to clean your seat/seat and crimp/crimp die every thousand rounds or so. Keep an eye on the OAL, as the crud builds up in the die the OAL will shrink. You need to do this with cast lead anyway, but the Lee stuff gunks up dies a bit faster than plain lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Howard, the place he is looking at does just that, they don't cast as hard as they can but tailor it to velocities you want....Your suppost to clean dies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I've shot a ton of wheel weights through various 44 mags growing up and have always been happy with consistancy/accuracy. We lube with soft RCBS lube and have little to no leading. The smoke is quite thick and it smells like you're cooking on the grill. Harder lubes usually are not as effective but they do smoke less. The key to casting quality bullets is to use a quality mould. Steel moulds are the way to go. It is harder to cast consistant bullets with aluminum moulds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Corey, yes you should clean dies LOL. If I could choose I would look for a bullet around 10-12 Brinell for 40 major loads, and I would use Unique. If I wanted to deal with the leading of Universal I would instead choose the softness of plain Clays instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 As far as mileage, I want to be able to shoot a major match without having to de-lead the barrel at lunch. 400 rounds max. I clean my barrel very thoroughly after (nearly) every match. I'm getting pretty good at cleaning out leaded barrels (steel12's), but need it to last all day without too much drop in accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 As far as mileage, I want to be able to shoot a major match without having to de-lead the barrel at lunch. 400 rounds max. I clean my barrel very thoroughly after (nearly) every match. I'm getting pretty good at cleaning out leaded barrels (steel12's), but need it to last all day without too much drop in accuracy. Now if I have to clean my barrel BEFORE you work on my guns I get charged less right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 As far as mileage, I want to be able to shoot a major match without having to de-lead the barrel at lunch. 400 rounds max. I clean my barrel very thoroughly after (nearly) every match. I'm getting pretty good at cleaning out leaded barrels (steel12's), but need it to last all day without too much drop in accuracy. This should be possible. I load my .357 Mag IDPA loads (158 grain RNLs at ~1100 fps) over Unique and have no problem with leading. With a bottomfeeder, your main worry will be gunk on the extractor after 400 rounds. Pulling the barrel and cleaning the chamber probably wouldn't hurt, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 Everyone always says to clean the barrel from the chamber end, but I can clean the barrel while it's still in the frame for a quickie scrub down. Maybe I'll have to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Don't knock the leading out of the barrel in the frame unless you do it with a bore snake or an otis pull. If you do it from the muzzle end you will be pushing lead flakes back into the gun, things like the hammer and sear engagement and trigger bow don't like lead flakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 I put the rod in from the muzzle, the brush into the chamber and pull it out. I'm going to get a snake to make it easier for a quick pull through job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 seems cast bullets shoot softer, and may be more accurate in the right loadings. I stay far far away from titegroup when reloading cast bullets. so far, my favorite has been WST for the 45 and 40SW( loaded for a 6 inch gun..) and AA7 for 9mm minor.. those powders smoke the least with the given applications. I have used Plain Clays with 147 Lead 9mm bullets at 1.150" and 2.5 grains to make a cheap dandy niner load. never really had any trouble with leading...none to speak of anyway.. harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Man Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 seems cast bullets shoot softer, and may be more accurate in the right loadings.I stay far far away from titegroup when reloading cast bullets. so far, my favorite has been WST for the 45 and 40SW( loaded for a 6 inch gun..) and AA7 for 9mm minor.. those powders smoke the least with the given applications. I have used Plain Clays with 147 Lead 9mm bullets at 1.150" and 2.5 grains to make a cheap dandy niner load. never really had any trouble with leading...none to speak of anyway.. harmon Couldn't agree more with the softer shooting (& WST). My favorite lead 45 bullet weighed in at 178 GRN (180 GRN mold?) from Competition Specialties for my SS. I think that was before the PF change so they'd be even better now if they made them anymore. FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Switching from 180gr Bear Creeks (no longer available) Um, I just got 500 - 41 magnum bullets from Bear creek. The web site is down, but the phone # is floating around on these forums and as far as I know he is still making bullets and taking orders.. or was last time I heard anything. But either way, good luck on casting.. it's something I'd look into if I had the time and room.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 Update. The cast leads I'm using are excellent. I little smokey compared to moly or jacketed but I can live with it. I don't care if they are made with wheel weights, virgin lead or whatever. They end result is a hardness that is ideal for my velocity and they perform great. Leading in the barrel is actually not bad at all. After a day of shooting the barrel is actually cleaner than when shooting moly's. The casts are every bit as accuate as the moly's. I'm using less powder than with molys. Quality of the bullets is very high. I've loaded over 2k so far and have only had about 5 bullets that I didn't want to load (lube rings may have fallen off or a not complete casting). After trying out the first box, I bought 15 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 So what powder did you go with? I looking for something to replace tite group with 180 moly bullets. But I'm also considering plain old lead. It would seem that a good lead powder would work for moly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian40 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 So where is everyone getting their lead bullets? Seems like they aren't a whole lot cheaper anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 find a place close, and order as many as you can... Kead Bullets in Dallas does pretty good price wise Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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