chuckbradley Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I jumped back & forth on posting this in Open gun technical or Reloading. I settled on Open gun since it is more relevant to open guns. I bought some brass off ebay that was cleaned and reamed in 9mm. The brass has a sharp burr on it where it was reamed. The burr doesnt interfere with function so we used it anyway. I have about 6000 pieces of this stuff. After only shooting about 4000 of this brass through 3 guns we notice a ring around the firing pin hole on the breech face. Its worse than any open gun I have ever seen before. My question is , in your opinions, do you think the burr of barss is causing the erosion by cutting into the breech face under pressure or do you think it would be more so the gas getting around the primer causing it due to an oversized primer pocket? The reason I ask is if its the burr I can remove it and use the brass. If its the primer pocket then the brass cant be used for 9mm major. I may ask the guy I got it from to switch it out for non-reamed brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't think brass is strong enough to damage the breech-face. My guess is gases from the oversized primer pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterLefty Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Chuck, Without a photo it is hard to say whether you are seeing a bright spot or true gas erosion. Any burr on the brass will flatten out on the first firing. Brass is a lot softer than the breechface of your slide. If you are seeing actual pitting on the breechface, then I would say that you are experiencing gas erosion. (I lost a Tanfoglio slide in the 90's due to Remington primers in my 9x21.) If this is the case, I would try switching out the brass. Even standard 9 may leak if the primer pockets are oversized. My 9x21 load was only 32,000 cup and I lost the slide in less than 1,000 rounds, and the Tanfoglio slides are a lot harder than STI slides. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't think brass is strong enough to damage the breech-face. My guess is gases from the oversized primer pockets. +1. Was it crimped primer brass? Why ream pistol primer pockets is my question....Reloaders need to be a little anal but jeez.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't think brass is strong enough to damage the breech-face. My guess is gases from the oversized primer pockets. +1. Was it crimped primer brass? Why ream pistol primer pockets is my question....Reloaders need to be a little anal but jeez.. Well we were having problems with once fired 9mm brass having military crimps. I talked about it in another thread. I found this brass that had reamed pockets. so thats how we ended up with it. I should have bought all new brass, of course then i should have just stayed with supercomp. There are so many issues with 9mm I am almost convinced its not worth the cheap brass and without the cheap brass there is no, none, zip advantage to 9mm. I was afraid of the answer, was hoping I was wrong. I too believe it to be gas erosion so the brass is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolduckboy Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I shouldn't have read this thread. I was sold on 9mm Major since you can get brass for $35/thousand. Supercomp=need a bank loan. Thanks for the head-up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdrocker Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I shouldn't have read this thread. I was sold on 9mm Major since you can get brass for $35/thousand. Supercomp=need a bank loan. Thanks for the head-up though. Cheaper if you keep looking Example: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=80753734 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Chuck, I have NO erosion on the breechface of my 9mm Open gun, and it is around 12K rounds now. I run whatever brass I can talk my shooting buddies out of cheaply. Any chance the slides are Caspian? I have had a couple Caspian slides go through here that were REALLY soft and showed breechface wear really early on. One gun had about 8K rounds on it while it was a Super and looked like it had 150K rounds on it. The wear on the breechface was nearly .010" deep. I moved the breechface back to flatten and true it up when I converted it to 9mm but I would suspect it will be just as ugly in a few thousand rounds of 9mm. I will talk to a guy I know and see about getting you hooked up with some good brass, commercial brass through a case-pro is all you need I think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Chuck, I have NO erosion on the breechface of my 9mm Open gun, and it is around 12K rounds now. I run whatever brass I can talk my shooting buddies out of cheaply. Any chance the slides are Caspian? I have had a couple Caspian slides go through here that were REALLY soft and showed breechface wear really early on. One gun had about 8K rounds on it while it was a Super and looked like it had 150K rounds on it. The wear on the breechface was nearly .010" deep. I moved the breechface back to flatten and true it up when I converted it to 9mm but I would suspect it will be just as ugly in a few thousand rounds of 9mm. I will talk to a guy I know and see about getting you hooked up with some good brass, commercial brass through a case-pro is all you need I think.... Yea thats what i need. One gun is 3 years old and has been shot about 20,000 rounds. It has been hardchromed. No sign of wear at all on this gun but now it is showing the same erosion although not quite as bad as the blued guns. The blue guns were new back in the spring. I went to this brass when my other source for roll sized brass went up to 60.00 a 1000. At least maybe somebody else may not fall to the same circumstance now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't think brass is strong enough to damage the breech-face. My guess is gases from the oversized primer pockets. And you wouldn't think water could erode rock, either would you? Given time, brass is certainly capable of eroding even the hardest steel.... Take a look at an AFTEC after 20K rounds under a magnifier sometime, and notice the ridge that's worn in the extractor face... In this case, though, it sounds like you're probably right about gas blowing by the primer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Gas ersosion can be harsh. What primers are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Chuck, Are you using a 650? You might consider just going to a 1050 with the swager. I don't understand the technical reasons why swaging out crimped primer pockets always produces MUCH better results than trimming, but it does. My limited experiences with trimmed primer pockets is that they are almost universally loose, which is why I avoid them like the plague. And I know a 1050 is a chunk of dough, but it sounds like you'd be ahead of the game in light of all the damage this brass is causing. FWIW.... E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Chuck Here is another link on 9mm brass http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=53634&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 If you are using rifle primers... find a load that is safe with pistol primers. Rifle primers are harder and tend to not seal as well as the softer pistol primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Using Federal 200's. For now. I bought 20k back when they were 90.00 a case delivered. Guess I may have to pony up for some of the match grade at 125.00 a case soon. I have used Federal 200's for 12 years in both open and limited. Back when we did the first 9mm I was shooting limited only and my other son was shooting production(factory 9mm and only 90.00 a 1000). So I bought him a square deal for the 9mm. We have the house for sale and planned on a 1050 when we get moved. We are strongly consdering changing all 3 guns to super comp but the cheap brass is a big draw. Then again if it takes all the work of hand sorting and dealing with the brass I would rather just buy new brass. Bad thing is we have the saem brass for 40 and its showing some erosion also. We have a 1050 for the 40 do you all think if I adjust the press to set the primer a little harder it would swell the primer enough to seal the pocket? Any want to buy 6000 pieces of 9mm brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Chuck, I would try them with small pistol primers and with production loads...It may be with the pressure that you are running with the Major loads that they wont seal, period. I have once fired 9x19 Win NATO (crimped primer) once fired brass that I would swap you...but you would need to try them with production loads so I know the brass hasnt been ruined. I shoot a lot of steel so I wont need them to hold over a 130PF..... You would also have to switch over the 1050 to remove the crimp, but man it is slick and and you will only have to do it once.... Lemme know if I can help..... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Howdy, Chuck !! Have been following this thread of yours and your predicament. Also that you are thinking of the possibility of switching to .38 SuperComp. Either cartridge is good, but by now you have grown used to the Major 9. Frankly, I'm sure that by now you have surely realized that there is more to the "following" than just cheap brass ??? If you were to shoot only new brass the cost would be high for either one. We all know that "once fired .38 SuperComp" is not available from the usual sources of once fired brass. If you were to pick-up your brass it would not make a difference which cartridge it was, obviously. I do not know of .40 caliber that is crimped for military use, but it may exist. How about switching your 9 mm to your Dillon 1050 then?? This wouldn't solve your situation with the rest of that brass you have on hand with the (maybe ?) oversized primer pockets. But then, I am not quite convinced those pockets are oversized, really ... ??? Those burrs you noticed obviously are not interfering with the carttridges chambering or causing any functioning problems. Any gas erosion would show as a "blasting" sign while changes from brass extrusions would show up as "pinning". In any case, not enough of a basis to discard the set-up. It will cost you more to switch cartridges than just the difference in brass costs. Anyway I will be calling you soon for some needed stock supplies. Maybe you can slip your "un-needed" 9 mm brass into the shipping box ... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolduckboy Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 My grandfather uses small rifle primers from CCI in his 9x21 but some other shooters have been using Small Pistol Magnums for 9mm major. they work pretty well and also work really well for .40 so you don't have to switch out primers to reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 My grandfather uses small rifle primers from CCI in his 9x21 but some other shooters have been using Small Pistol Magnums for 9mm major. they work pretty well and also work really well for .40 so you don't have to switch out primers to reload. Yea, the federal 200 is a small pistol magnum. They are softer which tend to have a better ignition. I would think the softer metal would expand and seal the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Federal 200's are what I use in all my 'big match' loads. Never had a stitch of trouble with them sealing, if they won't seal nothing will. I talked to a couple guys about brass, let me see what I can get worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 Chuck, I would try them with small pistol primers and with production loads...It may be with the pressure that you are running with the Major loads that they wont seal, period.I have once fired 9x19 Win NATO (crimped primer) once fired brass that I would swap you...but you would need to try them with production loads so I know the brass hasnt been ruined. I shoot a lot of steel so I wont need them to hold over a 130PF..... You would also have to switch over the 1050 to remove the crimp, but man it is slick and and you will only have to do it once.... Lemme know if I can help..... DougC Doug, I really appreciate the offer but the guy who I got them from has offered to take them back. I wouldnt want anybody to have to deal with what i have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmd Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 (edited) Chuck, Thought I'd share my similar experience - I too have a problem with the breechfaces on both of my 9mm Major open guns. It also appears to be erosion - if you'd like I could send you pictures. Almost all the brass I have shot thru these pistols was FC and bought from a company as once fired, washed, deprimed/sized, primer pockets swaged/reamed) and rollsized. I've shot probably 20k rounds thru both pistols. I use WSR primers, VV 3N37 and load on a 1050. After reading this post I wonder if my problem is/was due to the primer pockets being reamed too much. Now you've got me thinking... FYI - 9mm brass issues have already modivated me to switch one of my 9mm Major pistols over to 38SC. I plan to have my other pistol rebarreled to 38SC soon - but with this one I am also keeping the 9mm barrel so that I'll have the option to shoot 9Major as well. Edited September 24, 2007 by pmd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Hey Folks, My experience is that there is no free lunch. If you choose to load and shoot cheap, once fired, mixed headstamp brass you still pay somehow. You either have to spend more time and hassle in brass sort and prep or you pay in reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 Chuck,Thought I'd share my similar experience - I too have a problem with the breechfaces on both of my 9mm Major open guns. It also appears to be erosion - if you'd like I could send you pictures. Almost all the brass I have shot thru these pistols was FC and bought from a company as once fired, washed, deprimed/sized, primer pockets swaged/reamed) and rollsized. I've shot probably 20k rounds thru both pistols. I use WSR primers, VV 3N37 and load on a 1050. After reading this post I wonder if my problem is/was due to the primer pockets being reamed too much. Now you've got me thinking... FYI - 9mm brass issues have already modivated me to switch one of my 9mm Major pistols over to 38SC. I plan to have my other pistol rebarreled to 38SC soon - but with this one I am also keeping the 9mm barrel so that I'll have the option to shoot 9Major as well. I thought maybe if it had been rollsized it would shrink the primer pocket but i guess the primer could have been reamed after it was rollsized leaving them with the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 Hey Folks, My experience is that there is no free lunch. If you choose to load and shoot cheap, once fired, mixed headstamp brass you still pay somehow. You either have to spend more time and hassle in brass sort and prep or you pay in reliability. Yep, and I know that. But the cheap brass is so attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now