Chuck Anderson Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I hate the folks that think they know anything at all about Law Enforcement if they haven't been there. Whether it's criticizing arrest tactics, use of force, driving, or just about anything in general. Yes there are bad, lazy or just worthless cops in general. Just like there are bad, lazy or just worthless people in every category you want to name, whether it's race, socio-economical, state, proffession... Somehow it has gotten to the point where LE are considered fair game for anyone. We had a shooting a year ago, 18 year old "kid" with a knife. Suicidal and had kicking in or smashed just about everything in sight. Told officers to shoot him. As he turned and headed into the house where his grandmother (who couldn't move real well) was at, officers fired 4 bean bag rounds hitting him each time. He continued unfazed in his alcohol induced haze. Two officers had to shoot him before he got to the house where he endangered another person. The media crucified the officers for shooting the poor high school kid. (He had graduated the year before and was not in college). We even had a guy write in and say that if the Crocodile Hunter could tame wild animals with a rope and a net that officers should have these and shouldn't need to use other force. (This was a month or two before said Croc Hunter was killed by a big fish). I get tired of people who look at a snippet of video and through the great amount of training that they've had watching COPS on TV can now decide that a use of force is not justified. Look at that poor man being hit by the evil police for doing nothing more than drunken driving. There's a saying in LE. The threat decides the level of force used on them. If you don't want to get hit, don't resist. If you don't want to get sprayed with OC, don't resist. If you don't want to get Tased, don't resist. Not sure about other states but in Oregon Resisting Arrest is Resisting Arrest. It doesn't matter later if the arrest was legal or not. The bottom line is LE has an obligation to arrest certain people. I've walked away from several arrests that just weren't worth the risk of injury to other folks. But there are some situations we just can't leave. And for the folks that jump to the conclusion that a TASER is somehow evil. Go to a Citizens Academy and get shot with one. Know what? They hurt like hell for how ever long you make the officers zap you but afterwards, very little pain remains. The folks that are shot with them are normally better off with the TASER than the alternative. What is the alternative? Getting sprayed with OC, the effects remain for 30-45 minutes normally, long after the fight is over. Focused blows. This is also referred to as punching and kicking. Guess what, this really hurts as well. And of course the force tool that the use of has gone down the most is the baton. This is basically a metal pipe you hit someone with until they decide that the pain just ain't worth it anymore. It tends to break bones and permanently damage joints. So the next time there is 2-6 officers trying to subdue someone and they end up tasing him, think to yourself which of those options would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I hate the fact that I agree with everything you said and am not as eloquent as you are. I also hate the fact that good people have their minds made up on certain things and wont be dissuaded with logic and reason. I hate that those threads always deteriorate and get closed when it is a great moment to inform and educate...... Respectfully, <while sicker than a dog.....> DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 You tell it, Chuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Very well stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 .... I predict another 30 seconds of thread lifetime.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 LOL ....yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 .... I predict another 30 seconds of thread lifetime.... Why??? because someone has an issue that they wish to vent on a hate rant or someone sees it as a topic worthy of closing? Lawman, I agree with everything you stated. It's been many years since I wore a badge and I can tell you now that it wasn't much different then. There are just more cameras and press around today. Someone may come along fussing and eventually get this thread closed, but as for me, I'm fully in support of you. JMHO FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 (edited) Why??? because someone has an issue that they wish to vent on a hate rant or someone sees it as a topic worthy of closing? Are we a little touchy?? No, it would've been because of the post immediately between mine and Scott's that was apparently deleted by the mods.... ETA - I have no dog in this hunt, except that I'm a little tired of seeing threads closed because people can't seem to follow forum rules, and my post was a reaction to someone doing that.... Edited September 22, 2007 by XRe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Thanks for saying it Chuck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Well said, Chuck. And FWIW, I haven't seen anything here that would indicate the thread needs to be closed. A very recent thread with a similar subject did get closed, but because of the political discussion that ensued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airic Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I hate the folks that think they know anything at all about Law Enforcement if they haven't been there. Whether it's criticizing arrest tactics, use of force, driving, or just about anything in general. Yes there are bad, lazy or just worthless cops in general. Just like there are bad, lazy or just worthless people in every category you want to name, whether it's race, socio-economical, state, proffession... Somehow it has gotten to the point where LE are considered fair game for anyone. We had a shooting a year ago, 18 year old "kid" with a knife. Suicidal and had kicking in or smashed just about everything in sight. Told officers to shoot him. As he turned and headed into the house where his grandmother (who couldn't move real well) was at, officers fired 4 bean bag rounds hitting him each time. He continued unfazed in his alcohol induced haze. Two officers had to shoot him before he got to the house where he endangered another person. The media crucified the officers for shooting the poor high school kid. (He had graduated the year before and was not in college). We even had a guy write in and say that if the Crocodile Hunter could tame wild animals with a rope and a net that officers should have these and shouldn't need to use other force. (This was a month or two before said Croc Hunter was killed by a big fish). I get tired of people who look at a snippet of video and through the great amount of training that they've had watching COPS on TV can now decide that a use of force is not justified. Look at that poor man being hit by the evil police for doing nothing more than drunken driving. There's a saying in LE. The threat decides the level of force used on them. If you don't want to get hit, don't resist. If you don't want to get sprayed with OC, don't resist. If you don't want to get Tased, don't resist. Not sure about other states but in Oregon Resisting Arrest is Resisting Arrest. It doesn't matter later if the arrest was legal or not. The bottom line is LE has an obligation to arrest certain people. I've walked away from several arrests that just weren't worth the risk of injury to other folks. But there are some situations we just can't leave. And for the folks that jump to the conclusion that a TASER is somehow evil. Go to a Citizens Academy and get shot with one. Know what? They hurt like hell for how ever long you make the officers zap you but afterwards, very little pain remains. The folks that are shot with them are normally better off with the TASER than the alternative. What is the alternative? Getting sprayed with OC, the effects remain for 30-45 minutes normally, long after the fight is over. Focused blows. This is also referred to as punching and kicking. Guess what, this really hurts as well. And of course the force tool that the use of has gone down the most is the baton. This is basically a metal pipe you hit someone with until they decide that the pain just ain't worth it anymore. It tends to break bones and permanently damage joints. So the next time there is 2-6 officers trying to subdue someone and they end up tasing him, think to yourself which of those options would be better. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Thank you for sharing your thoughts so well on the topic Chuck. They are appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Yep....well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 What I hate about this is that it needed to be said. (Well done) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Amen, bro. Law Enforcement is ugly. It ain't pretty, nice, convienient, or glamorous. That's TV you are thinking about. Too much TV (I call the TMT syndrome) had convinced too many people who have never had to arrest someone that it should be civilized. Well, it's not. It's real simple. " I am arresting you for...." or "I am detaining you for..." means you better do what you are told until you are fully detained, regardless what previously occurred. My LE orginization does not issue tasers. They issue ASPs. "Stop resisting", and you better listen. The flip side to this is I have never worked with any cop that LIKED to use force. It's physically and emotionally straining on both people. But, cops get paid to WIN THE FIGHT. We have to or others could suffer pain or death. We also like to go home with all our body parts. The worst arrest I was ever involved in was a sweet looking 24 y/o woman. She turned into an evil harpy and put an agent in the ER (minor injuries). I've never had to shoot another person for LE or war, and I've done both. I am grateful, but the times it was close, the gun was pointed and the safety was off and are crystal clear memories to this day. Folks, insist on seeing the ENTIRE tape, not just what CNN is willing to play for ratings before judging any cop during an arrest. GOOD THREAD LAWMAN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 From the Hate forum guidelines: The Hate forum was created and is intended as a place to vent or rant, period.General or supportive-related comments are not prohibited; however - rebuttals are specifically prohibited. Or in other words: If you don't agree with someone's rant - keep it to yourself. NOTE: At a Moderator's discretion, Hate rants may be locked at any time after the initial post. As posted in the Forum's general guidelines - This forum was not created or intended as a place to discuss or debate political issues of any kind - either IPSC, USPSA, or governmental. This includes Hate rants. I'm closing a whole bunch of these threads --- because they sure seem like rebuttals posted in their own threads, after we closed a different thread in the "What I Like" forum. While they're technically not a rules violation, I'm pretty confident that when Brian asked for "No rebuttals" he wasn't just talking about in individual threads ---- I believe that he didn't envision this phenomenon occurring. We will be discussing this subject among the Mods --- you may feel free to PM me Brian. Flexmoney, or myself if you have another viewpoint you'd like considered. Due to the volume of posts/threads I will not be sending pms to individual posters. Thank you for your understanding, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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