E3 Powder

[newshooter]

Curious in how much smoke is produced with the black bullets i know with TG it smokes the crap out of the black bullet

+1

The precision 185's are a moly bullet.

Precision delta is a FMJ

Yeah, and we want to know how much they smoke since the OP used the Precision 185s.

+1 so hows the smoke when shooting them???

[Bear23]

I shot some loads over the weekend.

Billy bullet 180 gr. FP (moly)

1.2" Oal

4.4 gr E3

10 shots

Avg. 961 fps

ES 22

SD < 10

PF 173

Very clean, temp was mid 90's. 40% humidity. NO Smoke!!!!

Gun was clean too. I shot about 200 rounds of this load. Gun was clean, no soot. Recoil was soft, not snappy...

Addendum. I shot a 4 stage match yesterday, gun was clean. I had not cleaned it from the day before. With TG, my gun was sooty, with carbon residue all over the chamber and hood area. NOt so with the E3.

I love this powder.

I also chroned some more loads.

I need 4.8 gr of E3 with the MG CMJ bullet (180) to reach PF. i ended up with a FP of 172. load length of 1.180"

[revchuck]

Bear - What caliber are you loading? Sounds like either .38 SC or 9x19...OAL of 1.2"?

[Bear23]

40.

Sorry bout that.

[SLM]

I have found from loading up some E3 that it likes to have the powder measure more full than more empty. It seams to throw a more consistant throw of powder.

Scott

What powder measure do you have? Do you use a baffle in it? Thanks. I'm finally about out of TG so I'm getting ready to try to work up a load with my E3.

[3GunF1Guy]

I use a Dillon 650 to load on. It is just the Dillon powder throw with the regular measure in it.

I loaded 500 last night and I like E3 even more now. When I was finished with 500 rds there was not any powder under the load plate. It look like that E3 does not "jump" out of the case even though it is has more space taken up by the powder and it is closer to the top of the case. As a matter of fact that 500 was the fastest I have ever loaded 500 rds. I could really move along and not have to woory about the little grains of N320 jumping out of the case when I was a little fast on the loader. The E3 stays in the case, so that speed up my loading.

Scott

[Too_Slow]

I decided to try it out,

S & W 610 4 inch

180 Billy Bullet Round Nose

1.2 OAL

4.45 Grains

1000 Fps AV

SD = 6

ES = 20

180 PF

I am going to load up some more but am going to try 4.0 grains because some 4.65 grain loads went to 184 PF. So if it stays linear that should bring it down to about 171 or so.

Brian

Edited August 31, 2007 by Too_Slow

[al503]

I tried out E3 with 180 gr masterblaster black bullets.

4.1 gr @ 1.22" OAL, WSR got me 169 PF

4.3 gr " " 173 PF out of a 5" bbl.

With 125 zero JHP's, 4.3 gr @ 1.165" OAL, WSP, I got 139 PF out of a 5" bbl.

What I liked:

As mentioned in this thread, the powder is very clean and it does seem to burn on the cool (definitely cooler than TG and perhaps a little cooler than n320) side. It does leaves a little black residue on the muzzle but when I pulled off the slide, it was very clean inside. I could see going 1000 rounds easily between cleanings as long as the gun is well-lubed.

What I didn't like:

I got a lot of smoke. With the sun in front of me, I couldn't see a couple of targets after just four or five rounds in a match yesterday with the MB bullets. Someone in my squad mentioned that it looked like the smoke from a civil war re-enactment.

I'm going to load some more black bullets up side by side between E3 and n320 and I'll use whatever smokes less for practice, at least. I have absolutely no reservations using E3 with enclosed base bullets however.

[SLM]

...

What I didn't like:

I got a lot of smoke. With the sun in front of me, I couldn't see a couple of targets after just four or five rounds in a match yesterday with the MB bullets. Someone in my squad mentioned that it looked like the smoke from a civil war re-enactment.

...

That sounds like it's in the Titegroup smoke range, yes? Outside without any breeze TG + moly seemed VERY smoky to me. I don't get that with Solo 1000.

[al503]

That sounds like it's in the Titegroup smoke range, yes? Outside without any breeze TG + moly seemed VERY smoky to me. I don't get that with Solo 1000.

This is my first experience with black bullets and I haven't tried TG because of the reports of the smoke.

[steel1212]

Do you put a good bell on the brass so as to not scrape off the moly while loading?

[SLM]

Oh yea. I bell alot when I load moly, probably more than is needed just to be safe. With moly I like it be able to see a good flare about 1/16" or more down the case. With FMJ's I just open it a tiny, tiny bit so that I can get the bullet started and not stretch the brass as bad.

[steel1212]

I don't know then. If it is going to smoke like Titegroup I'll have to scrap the idea of using it. UC doesn't smoke as bad but still smokes. I'm still waiting on my bullets to try myself.

[DougCarden]

I tried this powder with some 165 FMJ the other day and was disappointed with the results.....15yds and in the bullets were on top of each other, but 25yds out I had flyers and it wasnt pretty at 50yds as well.

I am waiting on some lead 180s to load up as pretty much anything has to be cleaner than TG with lead bullets....

See ya,

DougC

[SLM]

I keep coming back to Solo 1000 for 9mm because it's so clean. Probably gonna regret the pound of E3 sitting on the shelf the way this sounds. I had bad tumbling with TG and moly at distances over 15 feet with 147's at about 127 PF. No issues with Solo but I'm not sure of the PF. Definitely feels softer than the TG also.

[al503]

Do you put a good bell on the brass so as to not scrape off the moly while loading?

I also increased the bell (compared to jacketed bullets where I hardly bell at all) and pulled a couple of bullets to make sure that:

1. I wasn't overcrimping,

2. the coating wasn't being damaged.

I just loaded up the same bullets with n320 today. Hopefully I'll be able to get out tomorrow and shoot them back to back to compare the smoke.

[steel1212]

I've loaded up some E3 now with 147s Bear Creek Molys 9mm with 2.8 grains at 1.15 OAL. When the rest of my order gets here I'll load up some 180 Bear Creek Moly .40s with probably 4.1 at 1.180 or so. If this smokes like TG I'll probably stick with UC for my .40 loads and see how it works with 9mm as well.

[al503]

I shot the E3 loads side by side with n320 loads in .40 w/ masterblaster moly's. N320 definitely smokes less than the E3 load. Not saying there isn't a significant amount of smoke with the n320 though (coming from shooting only zero jhp's previously.)

E3 will definitely replace titegroup though when I do shoot jhp's.

[SLM]

I've loaded up some E3 now with 147s Bear Creek Molys 9mm with 2.8 grains at 1.15 OAL.

I'm interested to hear how these work out. I don't usually load that long but I can get away with it if I have to. Velocity, PF, etc would be appreciated!

[steel1212]

I've loaded up some E3 now with 147s Bear Creek Molys 9mm with 2.8 grains at 1.15 OAL.

I'm interested to hear how these work out. I don't usually load that long but I can get away with it if I have to. Velocity, PF, etc would be appreciated!

I've got about 25 or so loaded and I'll shoot them over the chrono as well. I'll try to do it sat if I can.

[SLM]

I've loaded up some E3 now with 147s Bear Creek Molys 9mm with 2.8 grains at 1.15 OAL.

I'm interested to hear how these work out. I don't usually load that long but I can get away with it if I have to. Velocity, PF, etc would be appreciated!

I've got about 25 or so loaded and I'll shoot them over the chrono as well. I'll try to do it sat if I can.

Sounds good. What gun are you shooting them through? I'm shooting a CZ 85.

Most of my 147 grainers are loaded at 1.120" to 1.125" with a few loads out to 1.140". 3.25 grains of Titegroup behind a Precision Delta truncated cone 147 at 1.125" went 127 PF at the Ohio Sectional in my gun. Looking forward to your results.

[steel1212]

In the 9mm it will be a springfield 1911 and a STI eagle in 9mm. In the .40 it will be a para P16.

[mwx40x40]

I may have been a little too conservative, but here are my results with E3.

40s&w loaded 4.1gr of E3 under 180 MG fmj @ 1.170" and shot out of P-16 w/ Schumen 5"bbl

AVG FPS = 898 for 157 PF, Actually before I add more powder , I may shorten the OAL as my Para likes this bullet at around 1.150".

9mm loaded 2.6gr of E3 under Prec Delta 147 at 1.140" for 748 fps at 110PF ,it would not run cycle my G34 or M&P reliably , I bumped it up to 3.0 grains and attained 826 fps in M&P and 870 in G34. Still need just a hair more.

These bullets have exposed lead bases and I did notice a small amount of smoke. Weather was 85 degrees , Sunny with little wind.

Back to the bench

[ebg3]

Finally got around to trying e3. Shot in .40 STI Eagle with bull barrel(150K rds.).

180gr MasterBlaster

4.1gr e3

1.207" OAL

WSR primers

Avg.= 942fps 169pf

185gr Precision Black Bullet

4.1grs e3

1.20" OAL

WSR primers

Avg.= 917fps 169pf

200gr Ranier Plated

4.1grs e3

1.20" OAL

WSR Primers

Avg.= 869fps 173pf

Loads feel OK. Powder seems to be clean burning. Noticed more smoke than with the American Select I've been shooting, with all bullets. Still having bad leading problems with the Precision bullets. MB's are OK.

I'll be shooting 200 rds or so tomorrow in practice...I'm curious to see how clean the gun is after 200 rds. So far, I like this powder. Oh, no high pressure signs were seen with any of the loads.

[ebg3]

Just back from the range. I shot 225rds of 4.1grs e3 under a 185gr Precision bullet. This is close to a 170pf. Load feels a bit harsh but not bad. Lots of smoke...almost like shooting cast bullets. The gun is very clean after 275rds or so, just sooty. I'll be going back to American Select for a while and I'll compare the two powders some more.