Single Stack Division

[Sestock]

If folks seem to want a Limited-8 Division, that's fine. But to restrict it to one type of gun only(traditional 1911) is silly. If you do that than you might just as well set up a Glock Division, and there would be a lot more players in that than in a SS Division.

Just because JM Browning invented something and it was good is not a reason for it to split out as a Division. There are a fair amount of Sigs, S&W's, CZ's and whatever that would fit into Limited-8/SS and add to the mix.

Does Limited-8/SS in USPSA really make sense? Limited-10 is not going to be eliminated, not with the recent resurgence of magazine ban activity(Illinois).

Glock is a manufacturer of a DA/Striker fired gun, just as Springfield, S&W, Para, EAA, etc. and on and on. We are not talking about creating a division for a particular manufacturer but rather a class of handgun. Just as Production is for DA autos, SS is for 1911 style guns.

The single stack division is intended for 1911 style SA handguns manfactured by Colt, Springfield, Kimber, S&W, Para, Star, Dan Wesson, Auto-Ord, Sig, Taurus, and on and on. Almost every major pistol manufacturer has or is planning to introduce a 1911 clone. It makes sense to have a division for those guns to compete in.

It is not Limited 8 as some keep trying to paint it as. Limited and Limited 10 allow you to shoot almost any style handgun as long as you follow the division rules.

For all of those who are harping about Open 10/8. Get real, Open is Open. It is a division for pushing the limit of handguns. If you are not competitive with what you have in open, then get something that makes you competitive. Open is expensive to get into and stay comptetive, and it should be. This is the true race guns in USPSA. You don't show up at an Nascar event with a Yugo and plan to win. So if you have a state of the art Open gun Circa 1992 it is time to get a new gun or start shooting plates or pins.

OK, time to get off the soapbox, rant over.

[toowide]

I now have earned a classification in every USPSA division except revolver.

One of the things that I have learned is that every division is unique and has something to offer.

Open - Pure Speed, run like the wind.

Limited - Pure Speed with open sights.

Limited 10 - Thinking man's game. Shoot whatever you like.

Production - Those that can't shoot straight need not apply.

All present different challenges and SS will be no different.

All the divisions are great fun and I see no reason to limit ourselves to just a few of them.

SS will find it's place.

Have a little patience.

Tony

+100

[GeorgeInNePa]

How about Open-SS? we can add that to Open-10, Revo-8 and open Revo. Now, if only we had a BHP division. Production-SA-10 and Production-SA.

Would adding 6 more divisions make room for everyone?

Not trying to be funny here, just pointing out that no matter how many divisions we have, there is likely a gun outt there that does not have a natural home in USPSA.

Jim

There I added an important word.

You can play with just about any gun. We will find a place for you. But don't insist that you need a special place so you can win.

[Nemo]

I just wish (I mean, I can wish here, right?) SSD would be opened to other type, non-1911, single-stack guns. I know it's something we've discussed here "ad nauseam" but again, it's just me wishing...

Edited to brush-up my Latin

Edited May 17, 2007 by Nemo

[kend]

Sestock, I think the point he was trying to make is we shouldn't have a whole Division limited to a pistol that was designed by JM Browning, not a 1911 made by a particular manufacturer. It would be the same as having a division limited to polymer framed striker fired pistols manufactured in Austria. What would be the choices then? It would be a Glock Division even though it wouldn't be called that. My complaint with SS (and I hope it's made permanent) is it's limited to a 1911, why? Is somebody on a nostalgia kick and that's what IPSC started with? I don't mind if the division is limited to a single stack, single action .45 but why only the 1911? My S&W PC 945 is a single stack single action .45 that is the same size and functions just like a 1911 but I can't use it in SS because it's not built on a 1911 stlye frame, what reasoning was used to exclude it? That's been my question since it started.

[R/T Performance]

I will try posting again.

Yes Single stack needs classification to raise numbers.

I sold all my production gear to go single stack and CDP.

I renewed my USPSA membership and added a IDPA.

Yet I went to my local club and signed in as SS then he said 30 buck 5 more than usual and I was like what? "OHH yeah today is a quilfer"

Better just change that to L10 than.NO I didn't even have any 10 rd mags.

Single stack is a great division. Even being fairly new to the sport working towards my third year and fairly young 35

[Tungsten]

I don't mind if the division is limited to a single stack, single action .45 but why only the 1911? My S&W PC 945 is a single stack single action .45 that is the same size and functions just like a 1911 but I can't use it in SS because it's not built on a 1911 stlye frame, what reasoning was used to exclude it? That's been my question since it started.

Again, I'm new to the sport but I don't see a problem with expanding SS to include other single stack, single action handguns. Why is it restricted this way now?

[Overkill]

I don't mind if the division is limited to a single stack, single action .45 but why only the 1911? My S&W PC 945 is a single stack single action .45 that is the same size and functions just like a 1911 but I can't use it in SS because it's not built on a 1911 stlye frame, what reasoning was used to exclude it? That's been my question since it started.

Again, I'm new to the sport but I don't see a problem with expanding SS to include other single stack, single action handguns. Why is it restricted this way now?

You just kind of have to think of the 1911 as a protected class. There's a lot (inordinate perhaps) of interest in that specific model and there are lots of those guns out there in peoples safes. Enough interest that you can create a viable class around them. From the nuts and bolts level of writing rules to define the class, its far easier to say "1911 type only", then to create a long list of rules that define the attributes and characteristics necessary to equal 1911 and exclude anything significantly different from 1911 from a competitive standpoint. IPSC shooters have proven for decades that if the rule set is not absolutely air tight they'll find a way to game the rules for competitive advantage. Bottom line, there are not enough guns out there like your 945 that could play nicely with 1911s for the BOD to go through the agony of writing and administering the more complicated characteristic based rule set.

[Alan Meek]

Question for the SSD responders,

Have you contacted the USPSA President and BoD on moving SSD from a provisional status to a permanent division?

Alan

[Tungsten]

Question for the SSD responders,

Have you contacted the USPSA President and BoD on moving SSD from a provisional status to a permanent division?

Alan

I hadn't prior to this morning, but I've been working on an email / snail-mail as time has permitted since. As soon as I have my thoughts articulated to the best of my ability, I'll send them both off.

[Sestock]

I did send a message to MV about taking the p out of pssd. But, I guess that the e-mail has yet to be read.

[tryan1968]

I have been competing in PSSD since September 06'. Since that time, I have shot in matches twice a month, when matches were availible. However, I have yet to join USPSA since my classifiers do not count towards a classification. In addition, I chose the PSSD because it was the cheapest way for me to get into the sport. I owned the pistol and gear needed. This is the division I am planning on staying with. I have introduced two new shooters into this sport. Both of them shoot in the PSS division. Both of these shooters plan on staying with the PSS division.

I sent an email to the board saying to make the division legit.

TRyan

[Lee Bell]

The single stack division is intended for 1911 style SA handguns manfactured by Colt, Springfield, Kimber, S&W, Para, Star, Dan Wesson, Auto-Ord, Sig, Taurus, and on and on. Almost every major pistol manufacturer has or is planning to introduce a 1911 clone. It makes sense to have a division for those guns to compete in.

Just a reminder that all the rest of you guys are shooting in a sport originated by, and for, 1911 pistols. While it looks like a new division, it's actually a return to our roots. Those of us who shoot single stack appreciate that fact that some of you newcomers are willing to leave us a place to compete in a sport we started.

Lee

[TCK]

I have been shooting in this sport since 04 and have compete in every class except open and revolver. I bought a single stack and have greatly enjoyed shooting it. In fact, I may even shoot better in SS than the other divisions. My wife has since taken over my Limited gun, my step-son has taken over my production/L-10 gun and I've been shooting SS exclusively. I would LOVE to see this division be granted permanent status.

Until then, I will enjoy shooting my classifiers for no credit and becoming a proffesional sandbagger

[Chriss Grube]

TRYAN,

Not to bust your balls but you might want to actually join USPSA before writing the BOD??? There are more benefits than just a classifier.

[tryan1968]

TRYAN,

Not to bust your balls but you might want to actually join USPSA before writing the BOD??? There are more benefits than just a classifier.

CHRISS GRUBE

Thanks for checking in.

TRyan

[TCK]

I signed up to shoot the Indiana sectional and the listed participation in SS is depressing

I thought about just using some 10 round mags but if I do that then SS wont get the support it needs. I guess I will stay in SS and just have fun.

[cabdmd]

I would like to see the SS division made permanent for the 1911 as defined in the classification. I believe the reason the classification is written as it stands is because of how many people have that pistol, and the fact that the field is pretty level. So one can really compare abilities across the board. I would like to see more people shooting the SS class rather than choosing the L-10.

[Jim Norman]

I have been competing in PSSD since September 06'. Since that time, I have shot in matches twice a month, when matches were availible. However, I have yet to join USPSA since my classifiers do not count towards a classification. In addition, I chose the PSSD because it was the cheapest way for me to get into the sport. I owned the pistol and gear needed. This is the division I am planning on staying with. I have introduced two new shooters into this sport. Both of them shoot in the PSS division. Both of these shooters plan on staying with the PSS division.

I sent an email to the board saying to make the division legit.

TRyan

TRyan,

Might I suggest that you sign up to shoot an additional classifer ($5 in most places) with your SS gear, but in the L-10 Division? You will still be supporting the SS division with your match participation, but you will gain a Classification.

You will also have joined USPSA which will give your opinion infinitely more weight than that of a non-member.

Jim Norman

[kend]

I would like to see the SS division made permanent for the 1911 as defined in the classification. I believe the reason the classification is written as it stands is because of how many people have that pistol, and the fact that the field is pretty level.

If the object is to increase the number of shooters, why limit it to owners of 1911's? Performance wise, there is no difference between a 1911 and a S&W 945, they're both single stack, single action, 5" .45 ACP.

[tryan1968]

I'll be shooting in a level III match this summer, by then I will be a member.

Thanks,

TRyan

[Chriss Grube]

TRYAN,

Your welcome as glad to help direct a newbie!

[shred]

I think it's funny that a sport developed "to learn what worked and what didn't" now creates protected classes to "level the playing field". You can read that on PSSD, PD, Revo, L10 or whatever division you personally don't like, but limiting single-stack to a 'one-design' doesn't seem like the best way to go about it

[tryan1968]

TRYAN,

Your welcome as glad to help direct a newbie!

CHRIS GRUBE

Your too kind!

TRyan

[GENE S]

Jim,

I am for open s/s 10. There are a lot of old s/s open guns about. I also think that there should be open REV. also. Put that dot back on the old pin gun and come out and play. It could be a 6 shooter or 8.

Gene