-JQ- Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I'm no AR expert but the BATF&E has been known to hassle folks for this...they don't care why...just that it does it is enough for them I'll see if I can dig up the article on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) I'm no AR expert but the BATF&E has been known to hassle folks for this...they don't care why...just that it does it is enough for themI'll see if I can dig up the article on this. So do local "fud" range lawyers. Mine did it while shooting off bags one day, knew exactly why it did it but the local FUD about had a crap fit. Started screaming no automatics down here...yada...yada...yada. I told him it wasn't, he of course didn't believe me so I said, then you shoot it and make it go full auto. He couldn't find the "switch" and of course was yanking the crap out of the trigger and had a death grip on it so it wouldn't do it. He just stormed off down the range. I really wanted to make it do it againg but I decided not to Edited October 20, 2008 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Sounds like the disc. tip wore down a little & is allowing the hammer to follow sometimes on reset. Been there done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) I'm no AR expert but the BATF&E has been known to hassle folks for this...they don't care why...just that it does it is enough for themI'll see if I can dig up the article on this. I realize this thread was dragged back from the past, and the case we're referring to happened after this thread was started..... Google "David Olofson". He had an AR that doubled (malfunction) at a range, and went to jail for 30 months for it. Edited October 21, 2008 by Anon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Thanks Anon...knew it was around somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Someone mentioned "Slam Fire" as opposed to bump fire. My understanding is that a slam fire is one that occurs when the bolt closes and the gun fires. no need to pull the trigger. Essentially this is how many full auto guns that fire from an open bolt work. there is no real firing pin, only a bump on the front of the bolt. If one had a firing pin channel clogged up with enough gunk or maybe a broken firing pin spring, it COULD cause the pin to protrude and when the bolt went home the gun would fire. IF this were the case, it would most likely empty the magazine VERY QUICKLY and probably necessitate the emptying of the shooters drawers shortly thereafter. There is no real way to stop a runaway slam firing gun which is one reason that we all need to maintain full control and muzzle discipline at ALL times. My only case of inadvertent burst firing came from a worn out trigger job. I took the gun apart to bring it home. thousands of rounds later, the new job is still good. It was fun and it did happen at a range in a Class 3 State where Class 3 is more or less common so no one was too concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I'm familiar with Olofson's case..... a ton of stupidity and asshattery on both sides. BAD judgement displayed by all parties at a minimum. This is completely different...no M-16 parts in it at all, Just pure Delton except for the receiver {Spike's} and barrel {Unknown - from a forum member}. On to my issue..... As I noted, it only happens with the bipod extended on a concrete bench. Nowhere for the feet to grab onto, so they slide back and forth with the motion of the ignition and the movement of the bolt back forward while I am frozen with my finger over the trigger. Non issue if I stand or shoot prone on the ground or from a sitting position. I'll try ditching the bipod again this weekend and imagine that my ills will be cured and I won't be forced to Clorox out my shorts again. Yes, I dug up a dormant thread, but there is a wealth of information here in Brian's house, and if it saves one person a nightmare, it was worth resurrecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Now if you could just make it double on those up close hoser paper targets....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Yes, I dug up a dormant thread, but there is a wealth of information here in Brian's house, and if it saves one person a nightmare, it was worth resurrecting. +1 There is a gold mine of "dormant" threads but I don't think that makes them any less relevant - most of the time. Thanks and I hope your issue gets resolved...very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Try some weight redistribution on the gun, maybe turning your gas block down. Lower the weight of the recipricating mass (bolt carrier and/or buffer), maybe even a light (titaninum) firing pin. When I had the problem it was with a Cmag, (20 inch barrel) on a bipod. turned the gas block down, adding a lightweight stainless bolt carrier (and lighter buffer) seemed to solve the problem, but I went with the titaninum firing pin just to be sure. been shooting a shorter upper (18 inch) with a stainless lightweight carrier/buffer and haven't seen it even think about doubling...Hope I just didn't jinx myself... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You mentioned shooting at 1000 yards, then 300 while on the bipod. I bet you were juuuust squeezing the trigger. Mostly treating it like a bolt action rifle. When you do that, the rifle cycles with your finger kind of in "limbo" Not all the way back, or forward, when the bolt slams forward, the gun bounces forward, and you actually pull the trigger again. It usually won't happen when in other positions, because you pull the trigger like you mean it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You mentioned shooting at 1000 yards, then 300 while on the bipod. I bet you were juuuust squeezing the trigger. Mostly treating it like a bolt action rifle. Yep... was shooting the Mauser and 700 BDL in .308, picking off targets waaaaaay out on the range. When moving that technique to the AR, bump firing occurs when the bipod is used on the concrete bench. In my 23 years of shooting ARs, I had never had this happen, so it was quite the shock. I see the problem and solution here...will confirm later today after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 "If one had a firing pin channel clogged up with enough gunk or maybe a broken firing pin spring,..." Please, if you find where the firing pin spring goes in an AR, let me know, 'cause I must have lost mine. I had this happen with a Timney trigger. Thinking bump firing was the culprit when shooting for groups off the bench, I deliberately pulled the trigger and held it to the rear - no double, so all was well, I thought. Then I released the trigger and BAM! So, the trigger is going back to Timney! It's one of their first generation AR triggers and they had some problems with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You mentioned shooting at 1000 yards, then 300 while on the bipod. I bet you were juuuust squeezing the trigger. Mostly treating it like a bolt action rifle. When you do that, the rifle cycles with your finger kind of in "limbo" Not all the way back, or forward, when the bolt slams forward, the gun bounces forward, and you actually pull the trigger again. It usually won't happen when in other positions, because you pull the trigger like you mean it. +1 I can make my JP almost do it at will if I pussy the trigger in certain positions !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 "If one had a firing pin channel clogged up with enough gunk or maybe a broken firing pin spring,..."Please, if you find where the firing pin spring goes in an AR, let me know, 'cause I must have lost mine. I had this happen with a Timney trigger. Thinking bump firing was the culprit when shooting for groups off the bench, I deliberately pulled the trigger and held it to the rear - no double, so all was well, I thought. Then I released the trigger and BAM! So, the trigger is going back to Timney! It's one of their first generation AR triggers and they had some problems with them. Correct, not in an AR, However they do exist in most semi-auto pistols. AND the same exact things can happen there as well. I know, 12 years old (a LONG-LONG-LONG time ago), 7+1, squeezed off shot number one, 2-8 went right along after. Quite a surprise! There were a couple problems in that instance, but suffice to say, a jambed FP for any reason CAN be a bad thing. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Sorry for the jab, but it seemed like an opening, so I took it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 AR10's use a firing pin spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Went through 100 or so rounds yesterday, and it only doubled once... from the bench. Yep, the factory Del-Ton trigger is not one to get delicate with. I measured it at 4lb 9 oz, and I just have to be very conscious of leaning into it and manning the trigger back. I guess my hold is not up to precision work with this rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 if your gun is firing when you let off the trigger then its a bad disconnector. usually if you ease of the trigger slowly you can find the sweet spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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