ken hebert Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Somebody PLEASE help me out. My absolutely favorite Para P16 is having a few issues. The gun that has never had a malf in two and a half years is now choking every once in a while. Anyone who shot with me at Space City knows what I'm talking about! Here's the deal: every once in a while it is failing to go completely into battery. A bump with the heel of my weak hand will pop it into place, but usually results in a bloody hand after the stage/match. I wouldn't say it's stovepiping, as the round is entering the chamber and appears to be in contact with the breechface, just seems like the slide is stopping with about a half an inch left before full lock up. Tried what I knew and installed a new recoil spring, even went up a pound to a 12, still to no avail. I run the gun fairly lubed up, but not to the point of lube dripping out. Someone offer me some suggestions, so I don't have to shoot open for the next few weeks while I send it off!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Have you recently changed brass sources? Bulged or "Glocked" brass can make these symptoms appear..... check your dies and make sure something didn't back out a few turns, starting with the sizing die. Try an EGW undersize sizing die if you aren't already. If it not your loads, then start working on the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 extractor, or brass/ammo issue.. pretty light recoil spring too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) also check the extractor and breechface for burs which may not let the round slide completly up the breechface. Joe has a faster "enter" key than I do Edited May 3, 2007 by scooterj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Too tight extractor would be my bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 it could be that your barrel is unlocking sooner, in which case a new barrel link may be in order. How dso the slide's barrel lugs look, any peening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks for the advice. I'll check at lunch and try to get a reply up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 i had the same issues with my p16. I have a EGW "U" die and a Lee FCD and still got the occasional FTF. I got lazy and dropped in an aftec extractor and no problems since. i'm sure i could have adjusted the stock extractor but i'll save that task for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Are you cleaning the extractor tunnel well? A22 cal brush is best. Most times when a good working gun starts this the cause is crud in the extractor tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 You know, I haven't pulled the extractor in about 1k rounds, that could very well be it. Tonight might very well be a good time to install that new Aftec I just got. BTW, I do shoot lead mainly, over Univ Clays. Was talking to another more expierenced shooter the other day and after the conversation I've now picked up a case of Precision Delta jacketed and some HS6, going to give that a try. I was made to understand that Univ Clays was fairly dirty, where-as the HS6 would burn cleaner. And of course the jacketed bullets will be cleaner than the lead. Upon inspection I didn't notice any undue wear on the lugs, and the breechface looks to be in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 So probably extractor, or fat brass. Also check the leading edge of the chamber for lead build up, sometimes you have to get in there and scrape out the lead/lube accumulation on the front end of chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 DUDE!!!! HS6 is going to be INCREDIBLY FILTHY in 40. You were given some bad info. Universal is orders of magnitude cleaner. Clean your extractor tunnel and problem will be gone, shooting lead it really needs to be done every 3-500 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Precision Deltas have an exposed lead base. It will still get dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Do not put in a Shok buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Do not put in a Shok buff. My problem with my p16, the new one with the PXT extractor was the extractor. It wasn't letting brass under the extractor. Clean that baby out and I bet its good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 It's an older P16, normal extractor. And I've been running a buff since the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Take the buff out. It is the first thing you should have tried when the trouble started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Take the buff out. It is the first thing you should have tried when the trouble started. I'm no genius...hell don't even play one on T.V. But if he wasn't having problems with it in until recently how is the buff going to be the problem now? Not saying its not just curious. Have you cleaned up the extractor yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 DUDE!!!! HS6 is going to be INCREDIBLY FILTHY in 40. You were given some bad info. Universal is orders of magnitude cleaner.Clean your extractor tunnel and problem will be gone, shooting lead it really needs to be done every 3-500 rounds. Ken - He's right. I'll bring a shovel to the next match in Orange to help you clean it out. WSF might be a better choice. Remember the malfs I had with my CZ a couple of months ago? It was due to cast bullet residue on the extractor - there wasn't enough room for the case rim with all the crud in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 I don't claim to be a genius either, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but anytime a machine stops working properly I think there's a general rule to problem solving it. First thing is to make sure it's not fuel related (whether it's ammo, gas or electricity). Second, look for obvious broken parts or unusual wear. Then clean anything that might cause the problem...ie the extractor in this case. Once you've done that, you really only want to change one thing at a time or you won't know what the problem was. If it was working with a shok-buf in it before, it should work with one in now assuming nothing else has changed. Precision Deltas do have an exposed lead base, but I only see a slight bit of difference in fouling between them and Zero JHPs that don't have an exposed lead base. With cast bullets you're getting a little bit of lead from the exposed base being subjected to the burning powder, but the burning powder actually goes past the bullet and burns some off on the sides and front as well....that's why in high-speed photos you see the flame exit the barrel before the bullet does. You're also getting a lot of fouling from the bullet lube burning off when this happens. All of that combined makes for a fair amount more fouling than a fmj with just an exposed base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Extractor it is. Tore it down Friday afternoon and cleaned the Bejesus out of it. You wouldn't believe the crud I removed from the extractor tunnel. I'm ashamed of my self now. Put it all back together and then went on to practice a little over 300 problem free rounds that afternoon. Same thing for the match the next day, which contributed to me winning high over all. Thanks for the advice guys, I seemed to be suffering from a cranial-rectal inversion for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keninaz Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Somebody PLEASE help me out. My absolutely favorite Para P16 is having a few issues. The gun that has never had a malf in two and a half years is now choking every once in a while. Anyone who shot with me at Space City knows what I'm talking about!Here's the deal: every once in a while it is failing to go completely into battery. A bump with the heel of my weak hand will pop it into place, but usually results in a bloody hand after the stage/match. I wouldn't say it's stovepiping, as the round is entering the chamber and appears to be in contact with the breechface, just seems like the slide is stopping with about a half an inch left before full lock up. Tried what I knew and installed a new recoil spring, even went up a pound to a 12, still to no avail. I run the gun fairly lubed up, but not to the point of lube dripping out. Someone offer me some suggestions, so I don't have to shoot open for the next few weeks while I send it off!! Ken, After 2 and 1/2 years, it might be "spring time". (Sorry, pun intended, I coudn't help myself). Might be a good time to change recoil and magazine springs too. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Ken, glad you got it running. Don't be ashamed, the guys that pointed you in that direction are just the guys that have screwed that up before you did. Experience is what we are left with after screwing things up, in my opinion anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Ken, glad you got it running. Don't be ashamed, the guys that pointed you in that direction are just the guys that have screwed that up before you did. Experience is what we are left with after screwing things up, in my opinion anyway.... +1 Or have been lucky enough to watch it happen to someone else first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 You wouldn't believe the hell I caught from the local "plastic fantastic" Glock shooters when my gun of steel fell down. But all is well now, and I did put it on 'em last Sat at the local match! BTW, in addition, I did change recoil and firing pin springs on Friday, and have swapped out mag springs about a month ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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