Kind Of Belt & Ammo Prices

[texaschase]

Have been learning, researching, went to a local match, and now... I'm jumping in!

Have decided on pistol to purchase and now would like to know 2 things.

1. Trying to decide on 9mm or .40. I know I can buy 9mm in bulk and get it for about $0.15/round. (Can anybody get it better than that? If so, where?) However, I also reload - only rifle for now but could get into .40. So... my question is what do you think is more economical: buying 9mm in bulk or reloading .40 in my basement? I could go either way, just looking for opinions and suggestions. (preferrably from those w/ a little more experience than myself)

2. What kind of belt do you guys use? Full size pistol on one side and 4 fully loaded mags on the other, those have to be some heavy duty belts. What do you use? Where did you get it? How much was it?

Thanks for entertaining some newbie questions. Hopefully, I can share this w/ another newbie some day.

[j2fast]

As far as question one goes I'm not the best source of info since I don't reload for a number of reasons, so on to question two. The CR Speed belt is hands down the best one of the market IMO. It's a little pricey at around $50 but it's well worth it. I started out with other belts but nothing is a stiff or stable as the CR belt IMO.

[racerba]

1. Reloading 9mm would also be cheaper. Then there are the arguments on shooting .40s over 9mms.

2. The best belt is the CR Speed. Due to it's firmness.

[XD Niner]

1. As stated above, reloading of 9mm would be the least expensive by just a bit over reloading .40. Either is less expensive than buying WWB 9mm from Wally World which is still about the lowest price you'll find for factory ammo.

The advantage to the .40 is that you could load it for either minor or major. Assuming you choose the proper pistol, you could shoot minor .40 in Production and major .40 in Limited 10 or even Limited.

2. There is simply no better belt than the CR Speed one. You'll find 90% of the shooters out there with a two belt system (inner and outer) using this one. It is also less expensive than most of the options.

Edited April 16, 2007 by XD Niner

[texaschase]

What's the deal w/ the "two part" belt? What is it? Whats the purpose?

Thanks for the responses so far.

[foxtrotuniformlima]

Chase,

What type of matches are you going to be shooting?

IDPA & USPSA have different rules as they relate to equipment, especially belts & holsters.

The 2 piece belt is designed so that the outer belt can be made very stiff and rigid but attach to the more flexible inner belt by velcro. Otherwise, it would be nearly impossible to thread through belt loops on your pants and get the holster / mag pouches on. This way, you don't have to change your set up every time you take it off and on.

I like the Safariland belt but there are those who swear by the CR. Both are good but only legal for USPSA competitions.

As far as ammo, if you do this more than once a month, you will want to reload. Many benifits to reloading regardless of the caliber.

[texaschase]

As far as question one goes I'm not the best source of info since I don't reload for a number of reasons, so on to question two. The CR Speed belt is hands down the best one of the market IMO. It's a little pricey at around $50 but it's well worth it. I started out with other belts but nothing is a stiff or stable as the CR belt IMO.

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you reload? Just looking for as most info as possible.

[texaschase]

Chase,

What type of matches are you going to be shooting?

IDPA & USPSA have different rules as they relate to equipment, especially belts & holsters.

The 2 piece belt is designed so that the outer belt can be made very stiff and rigid but attach to the more flexible inner belt by velcro. Otherwise, it would be nearly impossible to thread through belt loops on your pants and get the holster / mag pouches on. This way, you don't have to change your set up every time you take it off and on.

I like the Safariland belt but there are those who swear by the CR. Both are good but only legal for USPSA competitions.

As far as ammo, if you do this more than once a month, you will want to reload. Many benifits to reloading regardless of the caliber.

First off, thanks. I really appreciate the info on the 2 piece belt - makes sense.

I'll probably be shooting mostly USPSA but am definitely interested in IDPA in the future also. I'm fairly aware of the USPSA rules but not so much IDPA. Can you tell me more?

Thanks again.

[LPatterson]

Have been learning, researching, went to a local match, and now... I'm jumping in!

Have decided on pistol to purchase and now would like to know 2 things.

1. Trying to decide on 9mm or .40. I know I can buy 9mm in bulk and get it for about $0.15/round. (Can anybody get it better than that? If so, where?) However, I also reload - only rifle for now but could get into .40. So... my question is what do you think is more economical: buying 9mm in bulk or reloading .40 in my basement? I could go either way, just looking for opinions and suggestions. (preferrably from those w/ a little more experience than myself)

2. What kind of belt do you guys use? Full size pistol on one side and 4 fully loaded mags on the other, those have to be some heavy duty belts. What do you use? Where did you get it? How much was it?

Thanks for entertaining some newbie questions. Hopefully, I can share this w/ another newbie some day.

Lets go about this from a different angle. Which division you plan to shoot in can determine caliber and equipment so decide that first. If you are going with the 9MM then you probably want to shoot Production since everyone is scored the same even if they use a 40 short & weak. In Production all equipment must be behind the foremost point of the hip which eliminates the magazine on the zipper. The cheapest way to start is with a kydex holster & mag pouches & an 1 1/2 duty belt from a police supply & 4 belt keepers. Put the mags & holster on the belt & use the keepers, USPSA requires at least 3 or the velcro belt system. This way you can hook the belt in front like normal & it would still be usable in IDPA. The disadvantage of the velcro system is that every place that there is equipment there is a loss of adhesion so I wind up adding extra velcro. I use a velcro belt for L10 but for PSSD & Production I use the method I described.

Actually reloading your own ammo is the best regardless of caliber because you can taylor it to your gun. Since you already reload my choice would be the 9MM & 147gr Precision bullets with a slower powder that you could scoop with a Lee powder scoop or make your own as I did when loading 3gr of Bullseye in a 38 Spec.

[j2fast]

As far as question one goes I'm not the best source of info since I don't reload.....

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you reload? Just looking for as most info as possible.

Mostly just because my job requires me to travel a good bit so my time at home is limited. When I'm home I tend to stick to items on my wife's honey-do list along with getting out to do other things (like shoot). If I really wanted to I'm sure I could set aside the time and it would save some money in the long run. As odd as this may sound I just don't feel like it's worth my time/effort to save what I'd save by reloading. If things ever change which let me put more rounds down range I'll dive into reloading but until then it's reloaded ammo from the likes of Miwall, Precision Delta, Atlanta A&A, etc.

[texaschase]

Have been learning, researching, went to a local match, and now... I'm jumping in!

Have decided on pistol to purchase and now would like to know 2 things.

1. Trying to decide on 9mm or .40. I know I can buy 9mm in bulk and get it for about $0.15/round. (Can anybody get it better than that? If so, where?) However, I also reload - only rifle for now but could get into .40. So... my question is what do you think is more economical: buying 9mm in bulk or reloading .40 in my basement? I could go either way, just looking for opinions and suggestions. (preferrably from those w/ a little more experience than myself)

2. What kind of belt do you guys use? Full size pistol on one side and 4 fully loaded mags on the other, those have to be some heavy duty belts. What do you use? Where did you get it? How much was it?

Thanks for entertaining some newbie questions. Hopefully, I can share this w/ another newbie some day.

Lets go about this from a different angle. Which division you plan to shoot in can determine caliber and equipment so decide that first. If you are going with the 9MM then you probably want to shoot Production since everyone is scored the same even if they use a 40 short & weak. In Production all equipment must be behind the foremost point of the hip which eliminates the magazine on the zipper. The cheapest way to start is with a kydex holster & mag pouches & an 1 1/2 duty belt from a police supply & 4 belt keepers. Put the mags & holster on the belt & use the keepers, USPSA requires at least 3 or the velcro belt system. This way you can hook the belt in front like normal & it would still be usable in IDPA. The disadvantage of the velcro system is that every place that there is equipment there is a loss of adhesion so I wind up adding extra velcro. I use a velcro belt for L10 but for PSSD & Production I use the method I described.

Actually reloading your own ammo is the best regardless of caliber because you can taylor it to your gun. Since you already reload my choice would be the 9MM & 147gr Precision bullets with a slower powder that you could scoop with a Lee powder scoop or make your own as I did when loading 3gr of Bullseye in a 38 Spec.

Yep, I'm shooting production.

I'm sorry but... belt keepers? What are they? What do they do?

Again, thanks for entertaining my questions.

As far as question one goes I'm not the best source of info since I don't reload.....

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you reload? Just looking for as most info as possible.

Mostly just because my job requires me to travel a good bit so my time at home is limited. When I'm home I tend to stick to items on my wife's honey-do list along with getting out to do other things (like shoot). If I really wanted to I'm sure I could set aside the time and it would save some money in the long run. As odd as this may sound I just don't feel like it's worth my time/effort to save what I'd save by reloading. If things ever change which let me put more rounds down range I'll dive into reloading but until then it's reloaded ammo from the likes of Miwall, Precision Delta, Atlanta A&A, etc.

How much are getting ammo for from those places?

And you said its "reloaded"?

[j2fast]

How much are getting ammo for from those places?

And you said its "reloaded"?

Yes, they're factory reloaded once fired brass. They all pretty much run around $150-$155 a case shipped for 1000 rounds for the least expensive 9mm round. I'm just trying the Atlanta Arms stuff but they have a good reputation. I've never had any problems with the Precision Delta or Miwall rounds besides both being a little on the dirty side.

Their websites are:

http://www.atlantaarmsandammo.com/

http://www.precisiondeltasales.com

http://www.buyammo.com (These folks sell the Miwall brand but it's out of stock most of the time it seems.)

[racerba]

I'm sorry but... belt keepers? What are they? What do they do?

They are straps to go around the inner and the outer belts. They are sort of a belt loop so the outer belt doesn't move much. You use it near your holster and mag pouches because they usually lack the velcro to stick to the inner belt, so they will move freely. The belt keepers keep them tight.

[Nemo]

Chase,

If you don't mind me asking, which gun did you decide to get?

Do you reload? If you don't I'd suggest you consider it. The equipment pays for itself faily quick.

I'm sure you've heard the old story about the box shoved in the attic full of holsters and shooting stuff no longer used. Well, that's one of the benefits of these forus and asking the questions, so you don't end up with one of those boxes after a short time. I wish I would've had a resource like these forums when I started. It would've saved me a lot of money and headaches.

As in any other sport, the nature of the shooters is to have the best possible gear. You could shoot many matches with the old $15 nylon holster, but those will be $15 that you won't get back to put towards the purchase of that cool kydex holster you saw and liked. My point, get the best gear you can from the get go.

The belt: For USPSA Production Division the way to go is one of the mentioned double belt systems, either the CR or the Safariland. These will allow you to setup your gear and leave it like that after you're done and ready for the next time out. My vote here goes to the CR because it is stiffer than the other one and your gear won't move as much.

The Holster: Race holsters are not allowed in Production Division. The hands down winners for this are the Kydex holsters by many manufacturers, like Blade-Tech and Comp-Tac, among others. Uncle Mikes has an injection molded plastic holster, but I don't like the way it fits the 1.5" belts. These plastic holsters are slick and durable. My choice here is the Blade-Tech Dropped and Offset Holster (I even use it for Limited). If you want to use it for IDPA, just remove the hanger and it is now a normal belt holster.

The Mag Pouches: My choice here would be the CR Speed pouches because the versatility of holding many different mag sizes, even single stack mags, but they are pricey. However, I wouldn't feel at any disadvantage using single or double kydex pouches specific for the gun.

Check the dealers forums here and I'm sure among those guys you can get all you need at the more reasonable prices out there.

Get familiar with the forums search option. Most likely many of your questions have already been answered elsewhere, but if you don't find the answer, ask.

9mm is the production division caliber of choice. If you don't reload it's also more economically feasible.

40S&W could be more versatile. Provided the gun you purchase, you could shoot minor 40 for production and then shoot major for limited, limited-10 and others. The down for the 40 is that ammo will be more expensive than the 9.

Let us know what you get and feel free to ask if you need any info. Hope this helps.

[texaschase]

Nemo-

After much research, looking, handling, etc., I decided on the XD Tactical. I have relatively small hands and it just felt the best. Plus I like the fact that it comes w/ holster, mags, etc., in order to get started.

I've pretty much decided on 9mm also. Since I'll be shooting production AND I reload, it doesn't get any cheaper than that. I can reload if I want to but if I don't feel like it or don't have time, I can still shoot rather cheaply. And cost is a big factor for me.

Thanks for all the responses w/ great info.

[XD Niner]

Do you reload? If you don't I'd suggest you consider it. The equipment pays for itself faily quick.

That's absolutely the right tack especially if you have two teen age boys who constantly are practicing to kick the ol' mans butt, right Nemo?

I have the exact setup that Nemo described for my XD-9 Tactical and couldn't be happier with it.

[foxtrotuniformlima]

Chase,

What type of matches are you going to be shooting?

IDPA & USPSA have different rules as they relate to equipment, especially belts & holsters.

The 2 piece belt is designed so that the outer belt can be made very stiff and rigid but attach to the more flexible inner belt by velcro. Otherwise, it would be nearly impossible to thread through belt loops on your pants and get the holster / mag pouches on. This way, you don't have to change your set up every time you take it off and on.

I like the Safariland belt but there are those who swear by the CR. Both are good but only legal for USPSA competitions.

As far as ammo, if you do this more than once a month, you will want to reload. Many benifits to reloading regardless of the caliber.

First off, thanks. I really appreciate the info on the 2 piece belt - makes sense.

I'll probably be shooting mostly USPSA but am definitely interested in IDPA in the future also. I'm fairly aware of the USPSA rules but not so much IDPA. Can you tell me more?

Thanks again.

The IDPA requires a normal one-piece belt threaded throuh all the belt loops in your pants and a holster that is designed for concealed carry. The IDPA section of this forum has a ton of discussion on the subjeet of holsters.

[redwoods]

Here is some good info for you.....

Get a kydex holster till you find out if you want a fancier one. An uncle mikes is fast and cheap and works well for USPSA, but if you shoot in IDPA, you should get a Comp-Tac or Blade-Tek, because those are legal for IDPA. (type the names in google and you should find their web sites) You should be able to get a holster for 20 to 30 bucks. Also, get two kydex double mag holders. Around 10-15 bucks each.

Buy a 9mm for production and then you can buy from walmart or reload. If you don't have a progressive press, you will probably just buy it from the store.

You can use a regular belt, but if you want to buy one, you can get one from "thewilderness.com" or a 5.11 Tactical belt.

Redwoods

[SLM]

What size belt should someone with a 36 jeans size order? I saw on CR's site to order the belt the same size as your pants size but read somewhere to go up 2 or 3 sizes, like I should get a 40 long belt.

Any suggestions would very helpful. I don't want to get one that is too short but at the same time, I'd think too long would get in the way of equipment placement. Yes? No? Comments please!

[ima45dv8]

Buy the 40". It helps to have some overlap.

[sslav]

What size belt should someone with a 36 jeans size order? I saw on CR's site to order the belt the same size as your pants size but read somewhere to go up 2 or 3 sizes, like I should get a 40 long belt.

Any suggestions would very helpful. I don't want to get one that is too short but at the same time, I'd think too long would get in the way of equipment placement. Yes? No? Comments please!

A 34" belt works well with 32" waist. Plenty of overlap. Can't see any harm in having an extra inch or two though.

[Carlos]

How much are getting ammo for from those places?

And you said its "reloaded"?

Yes, they're factory reloaded once fired brass. They all pretty much run around $150-$155 a case shipped for 1000 rounds for the least expensive 9mm round. I'm just trying the Atlanta Arms stuff but they have a good reputation. I've never had any problems with the Precision Delta or Miwall rounds besides both being a little on the dirty side.

Their websites are:

http://www.atlantaarmsandammo.com/

http://www.precisiondeltasales.com

http://www.buyammo.com (These folks sell the Miwall brand but it's out of stock most of the time it seems.)

Actually, the brass is porbably not once fired. More likely its been reloaded many many more times than that since it stays in the system. That brass could easily have 20+ loads on it. Its used until it cracks.

[Mikul]

1) I reload my 9mm. I have my cost down below $30 per 1,000. (hint: free lead) The only (game) reason to go to .40 is to make major in IPSC.

2) I bought my belt at Kohls. I looked for a 1-1/2" wide belt that's stiff and has a good finish on the edges. The edges should look like they've been melted over. You should not see the seam between two pieces of leather. I've also bought a gun belt at Macy's. I also own a Liger belt that I got for Christmas. It is the nicest gun belt that I own, but the $20 versions from your local department store will serve you well for years to come. My department store belts have served me well for 5 years and are still in use.

[Sniperboy]

Considering how this topic might be a bit dated, the increased prices of ammo nowadays might influence your decision or anyone reading this thread.

If you like "doing the math" like me check out this page.. it;s a reloading cost calculator.

(or do a search on RELOADING CALCULATOR on yrou favourite search engine)

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

I initially got into reloading because I love being frugal but I have found that reloading relaxes me, encourages me to shoot and practice more (you don't save money, you just shoot more ^_-) and gives me versatility in controlling my loads (and experience) as well as my firearms purchases - since all calibres are suddenly 'not that expensive' or hard to get.

As for the belt.. I have thrown away my SAFARILAND belts and bought CR speed.. they are more rigid and don't fall off like my worn out Safarilands. PLus the velcro is on the 'correct' side.

[RayFromHouston]

Take a look at my thread...

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48546