Major Pf Idpa

[Jim Watson]

We are going to shoot a fun IDPA style match this summer, just for grins, using a little different scoring. Major will have +.25 and +.75 scoring and Minor will be +.50 and +.1.50 scoring. Hit on NT will be a 10 sec bite. A miss will be 5 sec.

"We" = who and where?

"this summer" = when? Once or regularly scheduled?

Are you going to mess with any other rules in a "style" match?

I figure I can handle the power factoring and scoring, but other changes might be detrimental. Unless you plan to take JPA (Joe's Pistol Association) national or at least regional so I can shoot it all the time.

[Joe D]

Most likely will be in Montgomery. May be in Birmingham also. The rules will be IDPA except for the scoring.

[Jim Watson]

Thanks.

Montgomery is outside my club match combat radius.

Now if JPA would put on some two day 20 stage matches...

[Joe D]

I can send my plane to pick you up. Actually the Jet Ranger might be better.

BTW I saw that the Southern Regional will be 25 stages over two days.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Joe D

[Jim Watson]

I can send my plane to pick you up. Actually the Jet Ranger might be better.

Yes, there is not a convenient place to land fixed wing near my house; but you can have the pilot put down the helicopter on the tennis courts across the street.

Can I borrow the Glock 36 T for the match?

BTW I saw that the Southern Regional will be 25 stages over two days.

That was what I had heard. They proved the concept at the Summer Sizzler and about wiped out staff and competitors with two days in August. May will be better.

I think state and regional championships should be two day shoots.

[Joe D]

I have to give it to Dave Sevigny at the Alabama match in April. I was hoping they would let me keep it.

[RickB]

I do wish IDPA would allow Major PF loads to be scored differently than they currently are. TSA, while some aspects of it are flawed, has a good approach.

We are going to shoot a fun IDPA style match this summer, just for grins, using a little different scoring. Major will have +.25 and +.75 scoring and Minor will be +.50 and +.1.50 scoring. Hit on NT will be a 10 sec bite. A miss will be 5 sec.

The first two, and maybe three, Western States Single Stack Championships, held at Rio Salado, used "Leatham-Enos" scoring, which was load 8/major and points are worth .5. Load 10/minor, and points are worth .8. I'm working on a match, in the Seattle area, in which we will use that scoring system, and allow competitors to use either USPSA Single Stack, or IDPA gear, with everyone shooting for overall results. Courses of fire will be freestyle, but not necessarily USPSA legal, with no specified order of engagement, cover, concealment, etc. IDPA guys will have to run, and IPSCers will have to aim!

[dirtypool40]

.....and IPSCers will have to aim!

LOL, that's rich.

.8 / .5 is still pretty punitive, but it depends on the distance of shots. That's why the "HF" USPSA scoring works so well, it "automatically" adjusts fo different courses.

The IDPA arbitrary .5 is WAY too high for the bad-breath distances IDPA is shot at. Should be closer to .25 major and maybe .40 minor, for starters.

Edited March 14, 2007 by dirtypool40

[RickB]

.....and IPSCers will have to aim!

LOL, that's rich.

.8 / .5 is still pretty punitive, but it depends on the distance of shots. That's why the "HF" USPSA scoring works so well, it "automatically" adjusts fo different courses.

The IDPA arbitrary .5 is WAY too high for the bad-breath distances IDPA is shot at. Should be closer to .25 major and maybe .40 minor, for starters.

The vast majority can't shoot 25%-30% charlies, like they do in an IPSC match, and hope to have a good score at an IDPA match. Match winners are often averaging a point or two down per stage, not a point or two per target.

I think the original Vickers scoring valued each point at .3 second, and it was subsequently changed to .5; sure makes calculating the score easy, and that's why Vickers works so well.

[steel1212]

The vast majority can't shoot 25%-30% charlies, like they do in an IPSC match, and hope to have a good score at an IDPA match. Match winners are often averaging a point or two down per stage, not a point or two per target.

Shoot production and try to win dropping points on every target.

Regardless this thread has gotten so off target its not even funny. Gone from PF to meeting people to who does what....

[Merlin Orr]

Single Stack USPSA and CDP ammo and PF is the same for me. When I shoot my .40 in IDPA (ESP) I do drop the bullet weight from 180s down to 155s while using the same powder charge weight - PF is lowered to about 155 .

I try to make it a point to rotate through about 10 different guns and 20 loads while shooting 7 different types of competition. This ensures I never make any progress in my abilities.

[steel1212]

Single Stack USPSA and CDP ammo and PF is the same for me. When I shoot my .40 in IDPA (ESP) I do drop the bullet weight from 180s down to 155s while using the same powder charge weight - PF is lowered to about 155 .

I try to make it a point to rotate through about 10 different guns and 20 loads while shooting 7 different types of competition. This ensures I never make any progress in my abilities.

I shoot my XD 4-5 times a month in ipsc and steel matches. I shoot my 1911s once a month at IDPA matches. I want a .40 1911...

[Merlin Orr]

A .40 in USPSA singlestack is really nice. A .40 1911 in IDPA is to big a hurdle to jump and be competitive.... Need a fat gun or something that fits the box and holds 10 rounds....

IMO.

[steel1212]

A .40 in USPSA singlestack is really nice. A .40 1911 in IDPA is to big a hurdle to jump and be competitive.... Need a fat gun or something that fits the box and holds 10 rounds....

IMO.

I like the whole 9+1 thing. I shoot a 9mm 1911 in esp right now and go to slide lock on even number instead of coming back to get a target. I think 40s are the same way right, 9+1?

[Merlin Orr]

A .40 in USPSA singlestack is really nice. A .40 1911 in IDPA is to big a hurdle to jump and be competitive.... Need a fat gun or something that fits the box and holds 10 rounds....

IMO.

I like the whole 9+1 thing. I shoot a 9mm 1911 in esp right now and go to slide lock on even number instead of coming back to get a target. I think 40s are the same way right, 9+1?

MY .40 is a 9+1 affair... Maybe your on to something....

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I go to the JoeD school and have mags that hold 8,9 and 10 that fit in the box for my single stack 40. If I had the brains to look at the match before hand I could make the right choice--maybe. Thanks Eric

Edited March 15, 2007 by Aircooled6racer

[Jim Watson]

I like the whole 9+1 thing. I shoot a 9mm 1911 in esp right now and go to slide lock on even number instead of coming back to get a target.

You got an unimaginative CoF writer. A few triple tap stages, some Poppers mixed in, some targets far enough you would feel like they just had to have an insurance shot, etc., would get you right out of that even number rut.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Jim Watson

[steel1212]

I like the whole 9+1 thing. I shoot a 9mm 1911 in esp right now and go to slide lock on even number instead of coming back to get a target.

You got an unimaginative CoF writer. A few triple tap stages, some Poppers mixed in, some targets far enough you would feel like they just had to have an insurance shot, etc., would get you right out of that even number rut.

Its not a rut and my MD does do that for just that purpose but when he does it puts everybody else in the "even number rutt" with the poppers or the triple or single shot stages and all is back to even. Either way I'm not losing anything being down a round. Plus you shouldn't need that insurance shot

[Joe D]

A .40 SS is much easier to make run than a 9mm. I just switch barrels if I am in a 9mm mood or .40 mood. Thank you Kimber for using the same breech face.

I looked at our 2007 Alabama COF and it is pretty neutral. No real advantage using 9+1. My two stages are CDP friendly = 18 rounds.

I like starting with 11 in the gun. One can always, not that I ever would, dump/make up a round.

I may play around with one of my .45 Kimbers in ESP this year. There is something visceral about launching that big 250 gr slug at 500 fps. It stirs deep seated primal instincts.

[COF]

I looked at our 2007 Alabama COF and it is pretty neutral. No real advantage using 9+1. My two stages are CDP friendly = 18 rounds.

Joe, you might get some CDP shooters to disagree that an 18-round stage is CDP friendly since they have to reload twice - too many of those and they think they're being picked on, like us angelic roundgun shooters

Jerry

Edited March 15, 2007 by COF

[RickB]

I also think 9+1 in ESP is the way to go, unless stage designers are intentionally trying to punish shooters doing it. Most stages are paper targets, engaged twice each.

[Gregg K]

I also think 9+1 in ESP is the way to go, unless stage designers are intentionally trying to punish shooters doing it. Most stages are paper targets, engaged twice each.

I shot an 11 round stage at one match. I was thinking about the 9+1 guys when I saw it and was happy to be a 10+1 guy at the time.

[dirtypool40]

The vast majority can't shoot 25%-30% charlies, like they do in an IPSC match, and hope to have a good score at an IDPA match. Match winners are often averaging a point or two down per stage, not a point or two per target.

(bolding added for emphasis)

PM sent.

Not to be argumentative, and they are going to close this thread soon anyway, it's lost track, but...

I think you're mis-informed if you think you can shoot IPSC -2 every TARGET and have a prayer of winning the match. That's only 80% of the points major (hell it's only 60% minor), and won't get-r-done even at the local level.

I invite you, and other IDPA folks who might hold this conviction, to come on out and see if that's really what's winning matches where there are M and GM shooters. I can assure you, it is not.

[Middle Man]

The ever popular "2 Alpha"...

[dirtypool40]

RickB and I are saying the same thing; it takes HITS... IDPA, IPSC, whatever. Can't win being sloppy.

I also have one of those 9+1 .40's, see we're more alike than I first thought.

Edited March 15, 2007 by dirtypool40