Plated Bullets Are Whooping My....

[HSMITH]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Over the years I have read so many times how plated bullets shoot just great and was starting to wonder if I am just an inept DA. Glad to hear others have struggled with them too.

I swore them off last time I bought plated bullets too, but it might stick this time. I just don't have the time or money to screw around with things that probably won't work anymore.

[Carmoney]

I shot Rainier 230s in my revolvers the last two years, including two Nationals and a bunch of Area and Section matches. They worked great, and were plenty accurate at 25 yards and beyond from my 625.

If anybody wants to get rid of their "junk" plated .45 230s, PM me.

[Cherryriver]

The Berry's have worked well for me in .357/.38 and 9mm. In fact, the most accurate shooting I've ever done with any 9 came with 147gr Berry's in front of 4.0gr WSF. Cloverleafs at ten yards freestyle, and I'm not a good bullseye shot at all.

But I don't use much 9. I use thousands of the round-nose 158s for the wheelguns, first because they help the reload time by scooting right in without wiggling.

I seem to have settled (for now) on 4.5gr VV 320 for .38, which usually produces about 800-820fps in a four-inch Colt. Very, very clean- a patch down the bore makes you wonder if you had already cleaned the gun.

For some reason, for .357, the Colts seem to love 7.2gr of Unique, producing about 1140fps and shooting exceptionally accurately for me.

But when it comes to .45, I get better results with the Rainiers. This, despite that bad run they put out a couple of years ago with varying nose contours that resulted in big overall length variations when seated.

I had several thousand Winchester 230fmjs and couldn't tell which one I was shooting, Winchester or Rainier, when I was carelessly mixing boxes on the range table.

But then, I've never been accused of being a blue-eye Ransom Rest, either.

I do know that my lead-bullet days are over. I keep my old casting gear stashed in the attic in case there's no other way to get bullets, but I've had enough.

Bill

Edited April 10, 2007 by Cherryriver

[JFD]

I've used Rainier 230 HPs for several years without a problem in my .45 Kimber. Their 230 RN are as good as any jacketed I've tried. This is at 172 PF. Now the same gun shoots shotgun patterns with Hydra-Shocks if that means anything.

I've used Rainier 180 HPs at 170 PF in my .40 Para for over 2 years now without a problem. I was shooting 1.5" groups today at 17 yards with them. Berrys 180 HPs weren't quite as good, but close; it was the first time I've used them. The Rainiers shot better than the 180 Speers and Precision Deltas I tested them against today. I probably could have shot better groups with any of them if I had something better than black pasters on a metric target to aim at I couldn't focus worth a damn on those little 3/4" dots...Couldn't see the stupid holes...Left my old guy targets and spotting scope on my desk.

The 165 Rainier FP at 138 PF my wife is using in her KKM barrelled G35 just shot ragged single hole groups when I played with it today. As far as I can tell, these bullets at least as accurate as the 180 grain Precision Deltas I've always used in this gun.

The 135 Rainier RN at 144 PF and 157 PF in my Ed Brown barrelled .38 Super Colt shot about as well as the G35.

Yes, I was checking the zero of my Limited gun today before the SC match and decided to bring a few extra guns along.

I've never loaded them or cast bullets any different than jacketed bullets and have yet to see a problem out of several different guns in several different calibers.

I haven't shot a lot of Rainiers out of my .38 Super to see how they do long-term, but they shot good enough to maybe blow my theory that exceeding 1000 FPS (I was hitting 1150 FPS today) could be a problem. The vast majority of plated shooting I've done has been with major PF .40 and .45 loads.

[waxman]

All I use is berry plated bullets. I have never the problem you are talking about. I use 185 gr hbrn in my kimber and I just now went out and shot it at 2o yards, to see if I am missing something. I could cover the 10 round group with the bottom of a pop can. This load is using 6.6 grains of unique on my 550 with rcbs dies, and a lee crimp die. Never chrono'ed the load, but I am thinking 950 fps+ In my 9, I am using 115 grain berrys rn. I think I am running 6 grains of unique, which should be right around the 1150 fps mark. I only use my loads for practice, and buy factory ammo for matches, so I am not concearned with power factors.You really have my curiousity on this one, could it be just the rifling in a barrel? I have shot my berrys in factory kimber, beretta, springfield xd, and even my colt 6450 9mm AR, and never had issues. Maybe the custom barrels, have sharper rifling, cutting the plating? maybe?

[joecichlid]

I have been using Berry's 185 gr HBRN and 200 gr HP for years out of my .45 without a problem and 125 gr RN out of my .38 Super for just at a year, again without a problem. All seem to group really well out of my guns, maybe I am one of the lucky ones.

By the way, anyone know who might be carrying Frontier bullets here in the US? I would like to give them a bit of a try just to see if they shoot any better out of my guns.

Joe W.

[Steve Anderson]

Plated bullets are excellent for weighting down your reloading bench.

I won't use anything else!

I recommend 200 grain .40 cal because they are heavy!

If you can get them to shoot out of a gun, that's awesome!

I cannot.

[EricW]

Plated bullets are excellent for weighting down your reloading bench.

...

If you can get them to shoot out of a gun, that's awesome!

I cannot.

Glad I'm not the only one...

[Derek45]

I had good luck with raineers in my KART barrel'd 1911.

(That gun would probably group well with bullets made from paper mache )

My STI .40 will not shoot them. like shooting buckshot thru a rifled slug barrel !

for cheap .40 bullets see masterblasterbullets.

[TBF]

I have had really good luck in several 45's with the Ranier 200 Gr. FP over Bullseye.

Berry's 180 Gr. HP shoots well through my G35 at major over Universal clays , and minor over TG .

On the flip side , they have pretty much been worthless in carbines ( 45 & 40 ) and blow chunks over slow powders in 357 .

Also noticed a real feeding problem in my son's carbine where the bullets were getting mangled pretty well during chambering , these bullets are VERY soft ( Ranier and Berry's both ).

Travis F.

[joecichlid]

Travis, are you the same Travis that used to shoot with us at The Bullet Hole? If you are, you have missed out on a lot of fun stages over the last several months. By the way, if you are who I think you are, would you be interested in going in on a group buy from Berry's?

Joe W.

[waxman]

Well, I do have to add something to this. I tried again to shoot the 9mm 115 grain bullets out of my colt 6450 ar 9mm carbine. Up close, they worked fine, as I got back to 50 yards, only 1 in 3 would hit a uspas target. Ok, I guess they dont work that well in everything. Must be the velocity they get out of the longer barrel.

[JFD]

There's an article in the lastest Blue Press about plated bullets.

[dirtypool40]

Just one victim's guy's opinion, but I think it's about quality and stacking tolerances.

I have had three different barrels over the years that were finicky. One Barsto, one reg'lar Schueman, one AET.

From each, .400 sized, or rougher, plated would not shoot. In one I had the problem with black bullets. Other ammo would shoot in my gun, my ammo would shoot in other people's guns. But the combo of slightly over barrel and slightly under bullet added up to worthless.

That being said, from the barsto, accurailed gun shooting $30/k cheapo bullets in South America, I had a couple of the best groups I've ever shot. CLovers @ 25yards.

Fast forward to my problems with Berry's and once I fought with them and finally, FINALLY got them to size some at .402" I had a KILLER group from my gun the week before the sectional last year. Another clover, freehand at 25y.

So, they will shoot IF sized correctly. Problem is getting a know it all vendor to realize they are selling you a plated CAST bullet, not a true jacketed and therefore need to size like cast (at .402") instead of like a jacketed (at .400"). They still act like I am nuts or doing something wrong, and added several "sur" charges so they didn't get a re-order this year.

It would also be nice if they quit pricing them like jacketed!!!

Edited April 16, 2007 by dirtypool40

[EricW]

Sizing is an issue with LOTS of bullets / barrels these days. I'm getting pretty tired of the usual "you're an idiot!" response if a particular bullet / barrel combo isn't working for me. .0005" is a big deal when working with slip/interference fits. If all 40 bullets were sized to .402 it would seem to me that they would work better for just about everybody.

E

[JFD]

Check the article in Blue Press. Rainiers are not plated cast bullets. Apparently they were at one time, and sucked according to Rainier.

[Carmoney]

The current plated bullets are all swaged then plated, right?

(Plated 230s shoot really nice out of my 625....)

[DougCarden]

I have a theory on why plated bullets in smaller diameter calibers.... .355, .40....dont work well in most barrels and for the most part .45 plated bullets do.

Bearing surface and the burn time of the powder used. In the smaller calibers most of us have tried using fast powders and had poor results. Now put the fast powder in with the .45 and they work acceptably, for most.

Most people report having good results with the nines/supers using slower powders like Unique, WSF, etc. All powders having slower burn rates. I submit that when loading plated bullets using a slower powder it give more time to "expand" or push out the base, making it grab the lands/grooves, and provide suitable accuracy for what we want/need.

I also think that in a large bullet (.45) that has a larger/longer bearing surface it engages the rifling fine. In a larger case/bullet we are not creating the same heat/burn rate as there is in the smaller case confines.

I may be all wet here, but I dont have any problem shooting plated 230s out of my .45s. but any plated bullets in the 9.38s.40s suck for me, using fast powder. I never even thought to try slower powders.....I think powder selection and making sure the bullets are sized correctly will make a big difference in how they shoot.

I may be all wet here, but I now there are some rocket scientists lurking around here...

I hope someone figures it out cause I would like to have more bullet options for my open steel guns.....

DougC

[HSMITH]

Doug, that theory makes as much sense as anything I have heard on the subject. You might be on to something, maybe not the end-all theory but it does make sense to me......

I have gone as slow as Blue Dot in the 9mm and can't make them work, but we are only talking 2 brands of bullets, 3 weights in one and 2 in the other. I only shot them from 4 guns.

Just because I am an unrelenting D___ A__ I am going to try the 9mm bullets in one more gun, it has REALLY strong rifling and shoots good with everything I have tried so far. I am fully prepared for failure but you don't know until you try.

[gunsablazin]

masterblasterbullets are polymer coated and run great in my 1911 & 625. I had problems with raniers too. Yes you can shoot these bullets in those plastic guns.

Robin

[mwx40x40]

Guess I will throw in my .02 worth.

My experience with Berrys plated stuff is varied. I have had good and bad. In my Glock 34 I could not get 147's to shoot. Some bullets were slung sideways through target at 25yds. 125's shot okay.

In 38 spl158 RN accuracy not anything to brag on. But the strangest thing was difficulty in making minor PF with these rounds . Cast and Jacketed with same powders made 125 PF a lot easier. I think it has to do with the soft bullets and not able to get a good crimp.

I also shoot 230 Berrys in 625 Revolver. They shoot good in it, but recently while looking at some partially loaded moonclips . The rounds that were not shot (obiviously) had the bullets creeping forward. You could see a very good visible crimp indention the bullet, but it is not enough to hold it firm.

[Overkill]

I bought a bunch of westcoast/extreme 40/180's that I never could make shoot; bad accuracy up t keyholing. I find they're just the ticket for doing BE's awareness drills, timing splits, draw speed exercises, breaking in new guns.

I also load them up for when I go to the range with friends and family that cant shoot well enough to know the difference.

[Bear23]

I had nothing but problems with Berry's and Extreme. Good for practice, but not for match use. I couldn't get them to stop keyholing, even tried varied crimps.

Tried some Rainiers in 180's. no better luck.

[hitman]

Dirtpool, I just got some 40, 180 RS Berrys and they were sized at 402.

Checked about 40 rounds out of 1K and all were right there.

I did have an intersting experiance with some RN 180 Berrys, shot in a light rain and every single one tumbled, tried some HP 180 and they made nice round holes. Stoped raining and both went back to nice round holes.

[joecichlid]

With all that being said, anyone with 9mm plated bullets in 124 grain (or 115 for that matter) that are having no luck with them feel free to send them to Joe Wilson....... lol