ChrisMcCracken Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I've finally talked my dad into lending me his single stack 1911, and I'm totally new to them in general. I need to know what not to do to keep from messing up this gun. I'm especially concerned about dry-firing causing damage to the trigger/firing pin mechanism. I'm used to my glock which can take a beating without any real impact on how its tuned. How do pro's practice? Do I just point and yell bang or can I actually pull the trigger? Any guidance would be appreciated. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) I've finally talked my dad into lending me his single stack 1911, and I'm totally new to them in general. I need to know what not to do to keep from messing up this gun. I'm especially concerned about dry-firing causing damage to the trigger/firing pin mechanism. I'm used to my glock which can take a beating without any real impact on how its tuned. How do pro's practice? Do I just point and yell bang or can I actually pull the trigger? Any guidance would be appreciated. Chris I'm not a pro, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once. That said, I've always been told that dry firing will not damage a well built 1911. Snap caps are not necessary. There are people on the forum that dry fire their 1911 pattern firearms hundreds of thousands of times every year. Go ahead and pull the trigger with the hammer back as much as you want. (Yelling bang is optional, but will get old quickly.) However, dropping the slide from slide lock on an empty chamber is a quick way to destroy a decent trigger job. To practice mag changes, load up a few dummy rounds (no primer and no powder) and put at least a few into each magazine to avoid damaging the feed lips. Most people go ahead and fill the mag up with dummy rounds so that the mag weight in practice is the same as its weight in a match. HTH. Bill Edited February 23, 2007 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 +1. Dry fire to your heart's content with a 1911. As pointed out, don't let the slide fall on an empty chamber, get some snap caps (makes praticing mag changes a lot easier) and verify about 10 times that the gun is empty. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwoods Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 One more thing, don't cock the hammer back with your thumb, use the slide to cock the gun and not your thumb. I heard it is not good for the internals to cock the hammer back. Redwoods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The firing pin spring will take a beating dryfiring, but it is a $3 part and a 60 second repair. Thumb cocking them will only damage them if you let the hammer slip to half cock, try to avoid it and fully cock it each time. Other than that dry fire the heck out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 You will actually smoothen up the gun the more times you rack the slide & pull that trigger. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 All of the above is very true and I don't keep track but I am confident I have over a million dry fires on 1911's and still waiting for the $3 part to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranDoc Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Add another affirmative voice to dry firing 1911's. Prior to owning my XD (dry fire with snap caps), I had a friend's vintage mil-spec 1911 that had been dry fired ad infinitum prior to me beating the heck out of it for a couple of years. Among my instructors' guns there are 1911-style Springfields, a Gold Cup, and at least two STI's, all dry fired thousands of times, no problems. Can somebody please tell me what dropping the slide on an empty chamber does (the mechanics of the wear/damage)? I've heard multiple opionions on this, everything from 'it's built to be handled rough' to 'hold the trigger back ... (so some unnamed something doesn't get broken)'. What are the facts on this one? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Can somebody please tell me what dropping the slide on an empty chamber does (the mechanics of the wear/damage)? I've heard multiple opionions on this, everything from 'it's built to be handled rough' to 'hold the trigger back ... (so some unnamed something doesn't get broken)'. What are the facts on this one? On a very light and poorly installed sear/hammer combination, dropping the slide will cause the hammer to follow possibly causing damage to the sear engagment face or the hammer hooks. Even on a well built 1911, repeated dropping of the slide will take its toll on the sear and hammer. Or so I've been told. Rather than risk it, I just never decided to test it. Holding the trigger back was an old bullseye shooters action. It was not used to drop the slide on an empty chamber, but to chamber the first round off of a new magazine on slide lock. The thought was holding back the hammer kept the disconnector disengaged resulting in less wear on a delicate sear. I don't know if it worked or not, but it was common practice until the mid-80's. I believe John Shaw, in one of his shooting books, even mentioned this once. Bill Edited February 23, 2007 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 dropping the slide with the empty chamber will damage the trigger job. See Matt burkett's practical shooting DVD. he explains why it damages the trigger job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiledviking Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Also, according to Bill Wilson in one of his videos, dropping the slide on an empty chamber is hard on the barrel lugs that extend from the bottom of the barrel. Eventually the lugs break off and the barrel won't go fully back into battery. Edited February 23, 2007 by Exiledviking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranDoc Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Thanks, will do some more reading on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 To practice mag changes, load up a few dummy rounds (no primer and no powder) and put at least a few into each magazine to avoid damaging the feed lips. Most people go ahead and fill the mag up with dummy rounds so that the mag weight in practice is the same as its weight in a match. Not a bad idea, but if you do this, mark the dummy rounds very clearly. I use a magic marker to color mine completely, case, bullet, everything so that it's as hard as possible for me to pick up a mag loaded with live rounds and insert it thinking it's a mag of dummy rounds. Holes in walls, furniture, expensive electronic devices, and people, are not easy to explain to an angry spouse and not likely to do your future gun ownership and shooting plans much good. In the past, I've colored everything black. I almost alway seem to have a black marker handy. Now that I'm loading Precision Bullet's moly coated bullets, I'll probably choose a different color, maybe read. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Just keep the gun clean and lubed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Not a bad idea, but if you do this, mark the dummy rounds very clearly. I use a magic marker to color mine completely, case, bullet, everything so that it's as hard as possible for me to pick up a mag loaded with live rounds and insert it thinking it's a mag of dummy rounds. First, I do not allow loaded ammo into the "practice" area. Hard fast rule. All "shootin" ammo is Zero JHP, so for the dummy loads I used some 147 gr lead bullets to distinguish the difference. I do not like to leave rounds in a magazine, so I keep the dummy rounds in a zip-lok bag in the practice area and load them into the mag at the start of the session and unload them at the end of the session. I need to try the magic marker. I didn't think it would stay on the brass very well, but will give it a try. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Holding the trigger back was an old bullseye shooters action. It was not used to drop the slide on an empty chamber, but to chamber the first round off of a new magazine on slide lock. The thought was holding back the hammer kept the disconnector disengaged resulting in less wear on a delicate sear.I don't know if it worked or not, but it was common practice until the mid-80's. I believe John Shaw, in one of his shooting books, even mentioned this once. Bill Its called Pinning the Trigger and it will allow you to protect your 1911 trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Not a bad idea, but if you do this, mark the dummy rounds very clearly. I use a magic marker to color mine completely, case, bullet, everything so that it's as hard as possible for me to pick up a mag loaded with live rounds and insert it thinking it's a mag of dummy rounds. First, I do not allow loaded ammo into the "practice" area. Hard fast rule. All "shootin" ammo is Zero JHP, so for the dummy loads I used some 147 gr lead bullets to distinguish the difference. I do not like to leave rounds in a magazine, so I keep the dummy rounds in a zip-lok bag in the practice area and load them into the mag at the start of the session and unload them at the end of the session. I need to try the magic marker. I didn't think it would stay on the brass very well, but will give it a try. Bill Good plan if you have the resources to have a designated practice area. We don't have basements in Florida, somewhat limiting our options. My practice area is my family room, bedroom, living room, where ever my wife isn't at the time. I don't normally leave loaded magazines just laying around, dummy or otherwise, but I'm just a bit paranoid about safety issues. Better safe than sorry. Frankly, it's more likely that I'd pick up my dummy rounds as live ones as it is that I'd pick up live ones thinking they are dummies. Either way would be a problem. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 All good comments. The issue with dropping the slide on an empty chamber primarily has to do with the speed, thus energy, that the slide has in moving forward, then stopping suddenly, without the resistance to strip a round of the mag and chamber it thereby slowing it down and reducing some of that energy. Frankly, there is seldom a reason to deliberately "drop" the slide on an empty chamber. Simply "break" the forward motion of the slide with your non-shooting hand. You don't have to be delicate, just not abusive. It's akin to slamming your car door with the windows all rolled up vs. windows down. The same amount of energy yields a completely different outcome. Be Safe, have fun, shoot another day, MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I reccomend a few dummy rounds, using your hand to retard the gun, or pinning the trigger dryfiring will cause a b ad habit when you are shooting, If you do a reload with your finger in the trigger guard most RO's will send you home, and if you disrup the forward motion of the slide, it can cause the gun not to go into battery. dryfiring is cool though. do it until your heart is content. and your fingers bleed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I reccomend a few dummy rounds, using your hand to retard the gun, or pinning the trigger dryfiring will cause a bad habit when you are shooting, If you do a reload with your finger in the trigger guard most RO's will send you home, and if you disrup the forward motion of the slide, it can cause the gun not to go into battery. Also, under stress there can occasionally be a tendency to get the sequence in which we perform actions screwed up. Thus "pin the trigger, drop the slide" becomes "drop the slide, pin the trigger." BOOM! Pinning the trigger, in the old days, was a crutch for a trigger job where the hammer hooks had been severely reduced for a lighter trigger pull. With the smoothness of modern EDM cut hammers and sears, it's possible to get a decent trigger pull with full-sized hammer hooks. Thus the "need" to pin the trigger no longer applies. Actually, back to the original topic, an experienced shooter who understands how the gun works will always prefer you dry fire a 1911 to lower the hammer, rather than lower it with your thumb. Now, lowering the hammer with your thumb is something that can be done without damaging the gun if you (1) depress the trigger and (2) hold it all the way to the rear while lowering the hammer. However if you (1) depress the trigger and (2) let up on the trigger while lowering the hammer, you'll drag the hammer hooks across the sear. This will not do the quality of your trigger pulls any good as it can damage both surfaces. If you need to lower the hammer on an empty chamber, always dry fire the gun. I own 1911s that have been dry fired I'm scared to guess how many hundreds of thousands of times, and I've never suffered damage to a good quality firing pin. OTOH, I have had poor quality firing pins on which the head of the pin has swelled over time, eventually causing the pin to stick in the forward position. This is a bad thing on several levels. But with a top quality part it's never been an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I just pulled a broken firing pin spring out of a gun that has at most a couple thousand dry fires on it and less than a thousand rounds of live fire. Spring was a new ISMI, same spring as is in another gun with tens and tens of thousands of dry fires on it. Things happen, keep an eye on your firing pin spring. Especially since the gun will function fine with the spring broken in most cases, at least for a while..... Snap caps take a LOT of the burden off of the firing pin spring, if you use them the odds of breaking a spring are a lot lower. I just cannot get comfortable dry firing with SNYTHING in the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Thus "pin the trigger, drop the slide" becomes "drop the slide, pin the trigger." BOOM! Hence my first and only match DQ. Its been over 20 years since it happened but I remember it like it was yesterday. I refused to go to another match until I "broke the habit". And even then I had to watch myself closely for the next few years. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ah....vindication! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle J Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 OTOH, I have had poor quality firing pins on which the head of the pin has swelled over time, eventually causing the pin to stick in the forward position. I am having that problem right now. I had my firing pin stop plate come off and the pin still stuck in there! That was odd. Anyway just put a dummy round in each mag and a snap cap in the gun. Watch out if it is a .45 though, slowly take out the snap cap otherwise your cap will get destroyed by the ejector. Likes to push on the primer part of the cap and shove it way deep into the cap. Watch out for letting the hammer fall to half cock though! Fast way to destroy a perfectly good sear. Other than that just be safe and practice practice practice! 1911's will love you if you take care of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfieldshooter Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 As a holster instructer I use a simple way to identify dummy rounds. Drill two 1/8" holes right through the case at 90degrees to one another. 'With holes a dummy, no holes no use' Goldfieldshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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