Rather-B-Huntin Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm trying to break into shooting in Open, but am having a dickens of a time deciding which gun to go with. I'm not overly mechanically inclined, and about all I know how to do with guns is shoot 'em. I DON'T want anything that's going to require a bunch of tinkering with to make work right. I shoot with Chuck from Shooters Connection, and he's trying hard to steer me towards a Bedell. I'm a Glock fan from way back (no comments, please), and have been seriously considering one of S & J Custom's guns. I currently have the opportunity to purchase a slightly used Brazos Pro SC 4.5. The gun is less than a year old, with around 3,000 rounds fired. Price is $2,950. Looking for feedback from you Open gunners telling me whether I should or shouldn't take it while I can get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Lots of $$ for a used gun...no matter how little used it might be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have one of Dans guns, I love it I would do it again! Dan, Bob, Benny, just to name some, you decide who you think is the best for yourself. Anyone who has had a custom gun built thinks there smith is the BEST!!! So all being said DO NOT BUY ONE OF DANS GUNS!!!! This way I will not have worry about beating YOU!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I don't know pricing on Bob's guns, frankly... but.... $3K sounds pricey to me.... A little over a year ago, I bought a used Rusty Kidd built open gun that had 1800 rounds through it, with three mags, for $2K..... Bob builds a fine pistol, no doubt. That price isn't all that far off the price of a brand new SC 4.5, however - and if you're going to spend that kind of money, you might as well get one that you know the history of for certain (and I'd tell you that regardless of who built it....) If you know the gun and the guy selling it, and he's a buddy or whatever, you might consider paying a bit more than what I'm suggesting.... Otherwise, you have no real way of knowing whether 3K means 30K, etc (apologies in advance if the seller is on the forum - I'm not dissing you, just pointing out to Rather-B-Huntin that unless he really knows the gun, he's potentially buying a mixed bag for almost brand new price....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbocomp38s Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I had one of brazos custom PRO SC guns in 5 inch last year with only 1500 rounds thru it and sold it for $2900.00 Price wise now brand new is 3799.00 which has really increased from last year from 3299.00 Every Smith that I know has increased their prices. So, if you are willing to spend that kind of money( as long as it works 100%)it will be okay. That is only money but you have to know what you like to shoot that would satisfy you in the long run. Hope this helps. U can't go wrong with the smith's like Benny, Bob, Dan B., Limcat, M2I custom, Millenium Custom and so on. Hope this helps. I would try shooting different open guns with different config.firs before deciding in buying one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You can get a true custom gun for that kind of money, not an SC. I think it is WAY too high, but it will probably sell for that price. Brazos has enough of a reputation and following to command prices that are what I consider to be extremely high, that and he builds one of THE sexiest blasters you will lay eyes on. Opinions are like hind ends, everyone has one and they usually stink....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 go with what you can afford. if you have the means to get the brazo's, i'm sure you will not be disappointed. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm trying to break into shooting in Open, but am having a dickens of a time deciding which gun to go with. I'm not overly mechanically inclined, and about all I know how to do with guns is shoot 'em. I DON'T want anything that's going to require a bunch of tinkering with to make work right.I shoot with Chuck from Shooters Connection, and he's trying hard to steer me towards a Bedell. I'm a Glock fan from way back (no comments, please), and have been seriously considering one of S & J Custom's guns. I currently have the opportunity to purchase a slightly used Brazos Pro SC 4.5. The gun is less than a year old, with around 3,000 rounds fired. Price is $2,950. Looking for feedback from you Open gunners telling me whether I should or shouldn't take it while I can get it. That gun has been listed on the USPSA classifieds for several weeks. I think it's in the right price range for what it is, assuming the seller is telling the truth (and I don't doubt she is). A similar gun (Brazos SC 4.5), with a few upgrades was sold on the BE classifieds in the past couple of weeks as well, for a similar price, but it did have some upgrades...so it's not an exact price comparison. What you may want to consider is that if you haven't shot a shorty, compared with a full-size you may not like/prefer it. I think that may be what happened to the seller, but I don't have any personal knowledge. Granted, you may like it even better...hard to say until you compare. One thing to keep in mind is the question of "is this the exact setup I think I want?" That means, right caliber, right length, right scope mount (the one you're looking at has the offset mount that not everyone likes), etc, etc. If not, you may be better off just ordering one or buying a different used gun that's exactly the way you want it. If you can afford $3K what's a couple hundred to get exactly what you want (assuming this one isn't)? Lots of questions huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The other similar Brazos was mine and I sold it to a local shooter who knew the history of the gun and being able to check it out before buying also helped. I only sold it because I have a Pro SX coming in a couple of months and I still have 2 open blasters to use in the meantime. As mentioned above, it is a lot of $ and you can probably get a full custom gun from another reputable smith. At the same are you really gonna be able to tell the difference between a 2 and a 2.5 lb trigger pull during a stage? While I realize that this is only one aspect of many, there aren't too many things I would change from the SC. As a matter of fact, the Pro SX coming is very similar to SC I had and the other SC I'm keeping. In addition, a few of the well known smiths won't sell you the gun chromed. Their reasoning makes sense. Shoot it in the blue for a certain number of rounds and then get it chromed. This however adds significantly to the bottom line. I just spent $391 ($121 in shipping and $270 for the HC) to chrome a gun I purchased off the classifieds. Just something to keep in mind. As to the shooting characteristics of a shorty v. full length, given the right load, the 4.5" brazos is incredibly flat and stable despite being extremely lightweight. It points very quickly compared to the other make of shorty that I have, which is flat also but it feels noticeably heavier. Finally, Bob's guns are expensive compared to some of the other smith's offerings. He also has a very long wait for his full custom guns. However, I think that this simply speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 No doubt Bob builds a nice gun but 3k for a used gun is pricey especially when for that money you can get a full blown Bedell exactly the way you want it for that price. You can rest assured that with Chuck and Dan's help they will get the gun set up for you and as far as quality goes there may be many gunsmiths who make a nice gun but there is none better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I DON'T want anything that's going to require a bunch of tinkering with to make work right. Open might not be for you. Or maybe it was just the way I liked my guns, the ragged edge of reliability but the top end of performance. I don't you would go wrong with the type gun your looking at, Bob does good work and is at most all the big matches if you need some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I DON'T want anything that's going to require a bunch of tinkering with to make work right. Open might not be for you. Or maybe it was just the way I liked my guns, the ragged edge of reliability but the top end of performance. I don't you would go wrong with the type gun your looking at, Bob does good work and is at most all the big matches if you need some help. Open division requires alot of tinkering. You can learn fast though. You have to work out loads, springs etc. Its not like a limited gun where you can just go shoot. Once you get everything right its easy then. Also I'm assuming you'll be reloading?? Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm not overly mechanically inclined, and about all I know how to do with guns is shoot 'em. I DON'T want anything that's going to require a bunch of tinkering with to make work right. Are you reloading now ? Are you expecting your Open gun to run like a stock Glock ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Open division requires alot of tinkering. You can learn fast though. You have to work out loads, springs etc. Its not like a limited gun where you can just go shoot. Once you get everything right its easy then. Also I'm assuming you'll be reloading??Flyin40 With all due respect I will disagree that Open "requires" tinkering. Yes there are many who shoot open who are constantly tinkering with their guns and gear. However with a well built reliable gun, how much you tinker is up to you. My gun is every bit as reliable as any Glock I have seen or owned and has been the most trouble/tinker free of any piece of gear I have. The few small changes I have made to my gun were simply my choice to try/adjust/experiment with and by no means were they required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 +1, Craig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 With all due respect I will disagree that Open "requires" tinkering. Yes there are many who shoot open who are constantly tinkering with their guns and gear. However with a well built reliable gun, how much you tinker is up to you. My gun is every bit as reliable as any Glock I have seen or owned and has been the most trouble/tinker free of any piece of gear I have. The few small changes I have made to my gun were simply my choice to try/adjust/experiment with and by no means were they required. I was wondering about this also. I'm glad someone spoke up. I've put around 25K rounds through 5 different brazos guns. I had one issue with a limited gun (bad aftec.) Other than that, no issues besides a batch of reloads I loaded too long and was binding on the inside of the mag front to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firematt100 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 No doubt Bob builds a nice gun but 3k for a used gun is pricey especially when for that money you can get a full blown Bedell exactly the way you want it for that price. You can rest assured that with Chuck and Dan's help they will get the gun set up for you and as far as quality goes there may be many gunsmiths who make a nice gun but there is none better. I had a Brazos SC Limited. Great gun never a problem. I have had 2 Bedells (1 open and 1 limited) with a new open coming next week. Dan and Chuck are two of the best guys in the business and I would never deal with anyone else. From order to delivery they help you design a gun for YOU for the same price. Good luck and you won't be disappointed either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I've only seen one Open gun run like a stock Glock. Maybe it is something the shooter did to the gun, gear or ammo. But, that is kinda the point. Glad to hear they are out there...I just haven't seen them. I have seen plenty that think/say their guns have always ran 100%...but, somehow I seem to remember seeing them jam when the owners forget. (Not saying that is the case with anybody posting here...just my experience.) Of course...I can jam a Glock...so what does it all mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) My experience is that it comes down primarily to three things: build, ammo, and maintenance. If the gun is built right, it'll run. If its not, it won't - and to varying degrees ranging from the 1 every couple of thousand jam, to the "bolt-action syndrome" (and, "built right" includes the ammo feeding devices... ie, mags....). Any gun fed bad ammo is no good, of course. Finally, broken parts, worn springs, dirty gun or mags (usually must be real dirty, though) can take down any gun, too. Occasionally, a gun gets built w/ a bad part that doesn't get caught during quality testing, usually due to variances in ammo or use between the smith and the user.... You have to recognize that a racegun is really pushing the design of the 1911 to the finest combination of tolerances. If the gun isn't built right from the very beginning, its doomed. Also, a bad shooter/operator can make even the best gun start barfing, if they do bad things to their gear or don't maintain it... If its heavily mistreated along the way, its quite likely to have issues, as well, because some one or more of those tolerances are destroyed along the way. What I always love is when some random Glock shooter says "Glocks never jam!!!" to me... and then they immediately have a jam right afterwards. It almost never fails!! heh heh.... Anything can jam, if the conditions are right.... ETA - I believe Bob knows how to build a gun correctly, after talking to him for a while on a couple of occasions. Edited February 21, 2007 by XRe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) +1 to Dave's comments. Flex, I know you run a basically stock Glock but once guys start changing the basics they seem to become just another "racegun". I think we can all agree that there are many reasons a gun may jam and IMO the most common is the incessant tinkering people are constantly doing with their gear. Ex #1 shooter buys shiny new gun, saves money on chinese market mags from Bubba's Shooters Supply, saves money on reloading kit involving an icepick, hammer, teaspoon, and used bathroom scale. Buys recycled primers and bullets. Hollers loud and long that gun is a piece of s*&t. Ex #2 shooter is constantly on a search for the holy grail of loads. Insists on only loading to 165.025 pf and running a spring 2 lbs lighter than needed with 3 coils cutoff. Always complaining about "mystery jams" Ex #2 shooter who bought a used open topend in 9mm and slapped it on his also used limited frame with borrowed mags and complains that 38 super is more reliable. Ex #3 shooter who changes gun configurations every two months. Compensators, caliber, slide length, extractor type, recoil system based on which GM they talked with last. They do these mods over and over on the same gun and then any hope of diagnosing a problem is lost. Dan Bedell, Bob Londrigan, Benny Hill, JL Hardy, Rusty Kidd et. al. have all spent a lot of time to come up with SYSTEMS that work. Talk to them, listen to their advice, pick your gear and go beat the hell out of it. Then make a change or two. PS, every time I make a statement about how reliable my gun has been in threads like this I await the impending doom......so far hasn't happened. Edited February 21, 2007 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ex #5: Those who buy a gun from a reputable smith and don't tinker with it at all besides a glare shield, new mag button, etc., that finds an acceptable load based on the smith's recommendations and feels fortunate for having a 100% blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 That's what I'm getting at, Al Even that mag button can cause problems... heh heh.... Don't get me wrong - I've tinkered a bit with mine, but namely to the tune of different rate recoil spring, retextured the grip, put on a new magwell, changed the C-More. Nothing major to the operation of the gun, really... about to add a blast shield, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 That's what I'm getting at, Al Even that mag button can cause problems... heh heh.... Sorry, Dave. Little under the weather (besides being slow in general.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm trying to break into shooting in Open, but am having a dickens of a time deciding which gun to go with. I'm not overly mechanically inclined, and about all I know how to do with guns is shoot 'em. I DON'T want anything that's going to require a bunch of tinkering with to make work right.I shoot with Chuck from Shooters Connection, and he's trying hard to steer me towards a Bedell. I'm a Glock fan from way back (no comments, please), and have been seriously considering one of S & J Custom's guns. I currently have the opportunity to purchase a slightly used Brazos Pro SC 4.5. The gun is less than a year old, with around 3,000 rounds fired. Price is $2,950. Looking for feedback from you Open gunners telling me whether I should or shouldn't take it while I can get it. You can't go wrong with Chuck. He has freely given his time and advise long before I bought anything from him. Chuck's advice was right on target too. I bought a lot of my open parts from Shooter's Connection and had a GM smith build my open gun who was local to me. I saved at least $1K over the custom name open guns (nothing wrong with buying CUSTOM), but my budget did not have CUSTOM in it. BTW, I got all the things you get with custom guns too. The advantage of local smith is PRICELESS. The gun does run 99.999% the only problems I had with gun---shooter induced. The PRICELESS part-my smith kicked my a** and was able to correct my stupidity with a smile. No shipping charges either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhglyn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 One VERY important consideration is also how long you want to wait to get an Open gun. I spoke to Bob and Ingi at the Florida Open and the wait time for one of his guns is now 18 months, a year and a half! Last I heard the wait for one of Dan Bedell's guns was 8 months or more. So, do you want to wait that long or do you want instant gratification.............like I do. If the latter, then consider one of the smiths already mentioned and do your homework regarding what they are offering. If you decide that you want a "used" Brazos/Bedell/etc. now, then $3000 +/- is not a bad price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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