XRe Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Sorry, Dave. Little under the weather (besides being slow in general.) No reason to be sorry - I'm just agreeing with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Open division requires alot of tinkering. You can learn fast though. You have to work out loads, springs etc. Its not like a limited gun where you can just go shoot. Once you get everything right its easy then. Also I'm assuming you'll be reloading?? Flyin40 With all due respect I will disagree that Open "requires" tinkering. Yes there are many who shoot open who are constantly tinkering with their guns and gear. However with a well built reliable gun, how much you tinker is up to you. My gun is every bit as reliable as any Glock I have seen or owned and has been the most trouble/tinker free of any piece of gear I have. The few small changes I have made to my gun were simply my choice to try/adjust/experiment with and by no means were they required. Those who shoot Open tend to like trying a bunch of different things. There are very few people who get an open gun that doesn't do some tinkering, it almost a "requirement" if you own a open gun. More than any other platform, Open tends to draw guys who like to tinker. If your going open then you must tinker, its a requirement when coming to the Dark Side. Alot of guys that shoot steel plates like to change to minor loads, which won't run in their gun. Some spring changes is usually all it takes but its still tinkering. A poll was posted to find out how many Open guns run 100% from Day 1 with no tinkering Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) I'm trying to break into shooting in Open, but am having a dickens of a time deciding which gun to go with. I'm not overly mechanically inclined, and about all I know how to do with guns is shoot 'em. I DON'T want anything that's going to require a bunch of tinkering with to make work right.I shoot with Chuck from Shooters Connection, and he's trying hard to steer me towards a Bedell. I'm a Glock fan from way back (no comments, please), and have been seriously considering one of S & J Custom's guns. I currently have the opportunity to purchase a slightly used Brazos Pro SC 4.5. The gun is less than a year old, with around 3,000 rounds fired. Price is $2,950. Looking for feedback from you Open gunners telling me whether I should or shouldn't take it while I can get it. I have bought more than one gun from Chuck. The Bedell guns sell them self Edited February 22, 2007 by blue edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) +1 to what Dave said about ammo being a big factor. And that applies accross the board, maybe just a little more so with Open guns. And it's funny what he said about Glocks jamming too... Last year I lost the VA/MD sectional because of a jam in my Glock. It was a mag issue (me not cleaning it... ) but on the other hand I went about 50,000 rounds with only the that one problem too. So far my new 9mm Open gun is running great. Hope it stays that way... Edited February 22, 2007 by Turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I just had a t alk with a gunsmith, whom I wished would have talked to me when I started this wonderful sport. He basically talked me out of building a 3k gun for a few reasons. 1) They are a tool, and they WILL wear out. 2) Buy a dawsons sti, no frills for 1600, save $1400 and have the same accuracy, and reliability as a custom gun. The only thing I will gain, is getting all the little parts that I want in it, perhaps some special little slide cuts that I want and MAYBE a better fit, but not likely. 3) he knows people that buy those, and shoot the shjt out of them with no problems. 4) Buy one, save a ton of money that you can use on bullets, powder etc. send it to a gunsmith to go through it for reliabiltiy for 1-2 hundy. Of course this was all about a limited gun...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 2) Buy a dawsons sti, no frills for 1600, save $1400 and have the same accuracy, and reliability as a custom gun. I don't think I'd quite go that far... I don't shoot them, personally, so I have no personal investment in saying this, but.... I've handled a Dawson tuned Edge, and I've handled several Dawson Practical Advantage and Signature Series Limited guns.... The Edge is most definitely not the same fit or finish as the custom guns, and does not seem to have the same accuracy... Difference of about 50% at 50 yards... and MAYBE a better fit, but not likely. Yeah, I'm just going to have to disagree, here... Unless the custom gun is built by someone who's not a sharp smith, the custom gun should not only fit better from the beginning, but should hold its fit for much longer, as well. That's not at all to say the Edge is a bad buy, or a POS or something - but that its not quite in the same league. Its a nice pistol - but saying that you're not likely to find better fit in a custom gun is not true, in my experience.... 3) he knows people that buy those, and shoot the shjt out of them with no problems.4) Buy one, save a ton of money that you can use on bullets, powder etc. send it to a gunsmith to go through it for reliabiltiy for 1-2 hundy. I can see these two things, though - especially for a newer shooter. For most folks, the extra cash is better spent on ammo and training up front, rather than on a custom gun. And, the differences for the extra cash spent become smaller as you move up the "tuned factory" to "full house custom" continuum... If you have the money to spend, great. If not, the custom fit and absolute accuracy of a custom gun may not be the best value for what you can budget.... Of course this was all about a limited gun...... The disparity seems to increase when you move into the Open arena, due to the afore mentioned tolerances, etc.... but, I'd still stand beside my comments above even on Limited guns (at least, based on the ones I've handled and shot - obviously some variation between different pistols, etc). Obviously, that's based only on my experience - YMMV, and probably does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 <sigh> You mean i gotta re-think everything again?? I dunno, a Scott Springer tuned SVI factory limited gun shoots pretty damn good (hes a GM), has a great fit than anything I have seen ( I dont know much). ~50%......I guess we can agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 There's a fairly significant difference between the STI and SV factory guns that I've handled, too.... The SVs are more of a custom gun - and seem to have a price and wait time that more matches a custom pistol, as well... You mentioned an STI, not an SV, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I have several thoughts here: #1 Derek are Millenium Custom 561-628-2127 is as good as they get!!! He also does not have a 18 month wait time. #2 Dirtypool has a limited gun built by Derek, I have a Edge that has been gone over by Derek, big Difference, for sure. There is NO comparison in accuracy. Dirty's Limited gun is The Most accurate I have EVER shot by FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 R-B-H, call Brazos. He won't pull any punches and probably can tell you more about the gun than the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmcnx2 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) I'd echo the idea of buying a open gun from a 'good' smith(including mags), use the load they recommend, break it in like they tell you and maintain it like they tell you. I have a Brazo and Bob has been wonderful to work with, the gun runs 100%. Bob gave me a recipe for loads that included brass manufacturer, brand of primers, starting point for specifc powder, bullet brand and size and OAL. He provided a starting point and worked with me to get to my final load, which was exactly where he said we would be when we were done. Pick who you are comfortable with but remember the price you pay for a custom gun is only as good as it shoot, so saving a buck from someone that does not have the expereince to provide the full package may not be a wise choice. That said there are a number of people that mentioned various smiths names, including me. You'll need to be the judge for you. For me; Bob is my guy. Edited February 23, 2007 by mmcnx2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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