Single Stack Thoughts

[zhunter]

SSD is about the 1911. The 1911 was designed for a .45

How about anything less than .45 being scored minor?

:D:D

Maybe this should be in the humor section

[AikiDale]

I may be way off base here but I seem to remember reading the 1911 was originally designed for a .38 caliber round and was changed to .45 at the Army's request.

[mscott]

I may be way off base here but I seem to remember reading the 1911 was originally designed for a .38 caliber round and was changed to .45 at the Army's request.

Is that true? Boy, that could ruffle some feathers.

[mwx40x40]

I may be way off base here but I seem to remember reading the 1911 was originally designed for a .38 caliber round and was changed to .45 at the Army's request.

Is that true? Boy, that could ruffle some feathers.

Speaking of ruffling feathers. Why bother with SSD. L-10 seemed to be all we really needed to have a place for all 1911 45 owners to come play our sport. IPSC is what it is and IDPA is what it is. We don't really need a CDP class in USPSA , do we? What about the other Single Stacks? Where do they play?

[JFD]

Personally I think SSD is nothing more than wishful thinking. This would be fine and good except some nitwits seem to think SSD has something to offer L-10 shooters and can actually replace L-10. The poll results (that will be ignored) on the USPSA forum are hard to argue with.

Half or more of our new shooters, and not all of them move on to another division, start in L-10 shooting 75% non-1911s. Glocks and XDs are most common. Don't know what's happening with the M&P, as I've only seen 1 so far. I would have guessed the opposite would be true after watching folks shoot the XD.

Someone might want to get a clue that many IDPAers come to USPSA to get AWAY from strict equipment rules, not to see more of the same.

[Jaxshooter]

I would agree that a new shooter today is not likely to show up with a 1911. With the Glock, Springfield XD and others being priced well below a quality SS, a new shooter is usually going to take that route.

[EricW]

In defense of Gary, his vision was to have a USPSA division that was closely aligned with the Single Stack Classic, which is a successful concept. When I was in the PDX area, I saw no shortage of "No Yuppie Guns" baseball hats at matches. While that's the vision, I'm not so sure that it's been so clearly articulated publicly. Now that I understand the vision, I'm totally OK with it.

As for the caliber issue, the permission of 40 solves multiple issues for me. It allows me to leverage more bulk buying power when buying components. It's *much* easier to get a break when buying 30K+ bullets a year instead of 5 to 10K. It allows me to leave my press set up for small pistol primers. Brass is cheaper. And I don't have to worry about switching calibers. I just sit down and pull the handle.

If you love 45, please be my guest and shoot 45. There is no advantage or disadvantage of 45 over 40 or vice versa that I can tell, so let's not start another holy war and call 40 shooters "cheaters" or "weinies" or whatever.

SSD keeps us common with the Single Stack Classic. 40 keeps us common with Limited Major. To me, that's win-win.

[zhunter]

WOW, I was goofing around with this thread. The last thing I intended to do beside mess with form .40 SS shooters was to get into the whole L-10 thing and Non-1911 things too!!!

Some of you guys need to take a chill pill once in a while.

Mods

Feel free to delete this thread is you choose!!

[Merlin Orr]

Jay,,,You are a durned trouble maker. To stir up the L10 vs SS thing..Again. If you would just leave it alone the L10 will be gone and history soon enough....

Woops...Did I say something wrong?

[zhunter]

Jay,,,You are a durned trouble maker. To stir up the L10 vs SS thing..Again. If you would just leave it alone the L10 will be gone and history soon enough....

Woops...Did I say something wrong?

Yeah, get rid of L-10 and ALL of the minor calibers too, minor being ANYTHING less than .45

[boo radley]

You must admit -- nothing says "tradition" like an SVI magwell on a single-stack.

[zhunter]

You must admit -- nothing says "tradition" like an SVI magwell on a single-stack.

LMAO

OK, I am guilty!!!!

[Merlin Orr]

You must admit -- nothing says "tradition" like an SVI magwell on a single-stack.

Excellent.

[mwx40x40]

I may be way off base here but I seem to remember reading the 1911 was originally designed for a .38 caliber round and was changed to .45 at the Army's request.

Is that true? Boy, that could ruffle some feathers.

Speaking of ruffling feathers. Why bother with SSD. L-10 seemed to be all we really needed to have a place for all 1911 45 owners to come play our sport. IPSC is what it is and IDPA is what it is. We don't really need a CDP class in USPSA , do we? What about the other Single Stacks? Where do they play?

My apologies. I should have none better than to throw in my .02 worth. The more we can get to burn powder the MERRIER.

[Nik Habicht]

Jay,,,You are a durned trouble maker. To stir up the L10 vs SS thing..Again. If you would just leave it alone the L10 will be gone and history soon enough....

Woops...Did I say something wrong?

Yeah, get rid of L-10 and ALL of the minor calibers too, minor being ANYTHING less than .45

Somebody did that already..........now wait --- who was that again?

[Lee Bell]

I would agree that a new shooter today is not likely to show up with a 1911. With the Glock, Springfield XD and others being priced well below a quality SS, a new shooter is usually going to take that route.

I think there are good reasons that you're right about how many will start, but I think you might be surprised how many new shooters show up with 1911 guns. I shoot 4 of them, two in .45, one in 10mm, and one in .40, and have no plans to change. I hate Glocks, the triggers wear on my finger painfully, and I simply do not enjoy single action/double action guns as much as the 1911s that fit my hand and my shooting style better than anything else I've tried.

I'm not a new shooter, not by 53 years, but I'm relatively new to action shooting sports. I tried IPSC back before there was a USPSA, but didn't stick around for long. Back then, all the advantage was to the 1911 shooters, and I didn't have a 1911. I bought my first 1911, a 10mm Delta Elite, back when the FBI first made it popular. I didn't shoot it much until I started reloading and, even then, found it to be more expensive to shoot than any of the more popular calibers, new or old. The .45s were my next purchase, used for NRA 2700 and similar bullseye match shooting. When I realized I'm just not good enough to compete effectively with people whose whole world has been bullseye pistol shooting, I started looking for something more to my taste. USPSA was it. The .40 was purchased specifically to make this sport a bit more affordable. I still shoot bullseye, but only as a means to improve my shooting overall. I'm still not, and never will be, competitive with those that are really good, but I enjoy the challange of shooting with them.

I particularly liked the Single Stack division because it let me shoot what I already had. That's pretty much the same reason people shoot Production or Limited 10. What I had didn't, originally, accomodate 10 rounds. Frankly, if you need more than 8, 10mm or .45 rounds to defend yourself, you need to hire someone to take care of things for you. For me, 10 round magazines are for competitive use only. YMMV for good reasons. I now have 10 round magazines for all of my 1911 guns, but find the SS division is still what I most enjoy shooting. In a world where stages often seem to be designed to challange those with 10 round or greater capacity. Being limited to 8 rounds adds a whole new and complex level to reload planning and, for me, interest to the sport.

I think there's a valid reason for the Single Stack division and sincerely hope it evolves beyond it's current provisional status. I have no problem with expanding the definition a bit to include guns not entirely 1911 style, but I would not like to see it become just another equipment race. I think of it a bit like IROC is to stock car racing, a place where everyone that chooses to compete does so with similar equipment, pitting strategic and shooting skills against one another rather than technology and money. It's a place that suits many, but does not constrain others.

Lee

[Lee Bell]

In defense of Gary, his vision was to have a USPSA division that was closely aligned with the Single Stack Classic, which is a successful concept. When I was in the PDX area, I saw no shortage of "No Yuppie Guns" baseball hats at matches. While that's the vision, I'm not so sure that it's been so clearly articulated publicly. Now that I understand the vision, I'm totally OK with it.

As for the caliber issue, the permission of 40 solves multiple issues for me. It allows me to leverage more bulk buying power when buying components. It's *much* easier to get a break when buying 30K+ bullets a year instead of 5 to 10K. It allows me to leave my press set up for small pistol primers. Brass is cheaper. And I don't have to worry about switching calibers. I just sit down and pull the handle.

If you love 45, please be my guest and shoot 45. There is no advantage or disadvantage of 45 over 40 or vice versa that I can tell, so let's not start another holy war and call 40 shooters "cheaters" or "weinies" or whatever.

SSD keeps us common with the Single Stack Classic. 40 keeps us common with Limited Major. To me, that's win-win.

+1 on the win-win.

It looks to me like there is a place for all of the divisions. In my somewhat limited experience, Limited 10 appears to be pretty popular, a step up for those who are a bit tired of putting up with the hassel of planning 8 round magazine changes in a world where many stages weem to be designed for those with 10 round plus capacity. Others of us, including me, specifically enjoy that challange.

As for .40 being an advantage, so far, it's been anything but an advantage. I bought a .40 1911 Kimber that shoots very well, but, so far, hasn't run worth a damn. First it was feeding problems, then the slide didn't lock back after the last shot. Neither problem is completely resolved yet. I got to .40 through what may be an unusual path. I have, and love, a Colt Delta Elite. I don't love the cost of ammunition. Even reloaded ammunition is much more expensive than other options. I bought a .45, which is better, but still relatively expensive to reload, particularly with the cost of lead going up as quickly as it has. The .40 was a return to the 10mm rounds I have always liked, combined with much less expensive brass, as in free. So many people are shooting .40 these days, that I've been able to pick up more once fired cases left by those that don't reload, than I loose in the weekly USPSA shoots I participate in.

As for .40 being a competitive advantage, well, maybe. It depends on how you look at it. Shooting .40 allows me to shoot more, for less money, and still enjoy the advantage of major scoring. To the extent that shooting more is a competitive advantage, shooting my .40 is too. Then again, shooting more is kind of a fundamental goal of our sport. Right?

Lee

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I like the single stack division. It gives us another place to shoot. I think limited 10 is good also for the single stacks or double stacks. Limited 10 is a stepping stone for some on the way to limited or open class. I see single stack being the place to start for some but also a place where some will stay. I mean changing magazines is part of the fun unlike open class ;-). I like the 40 since it seems snappier loaded to major and I can also use it for my limited or limited 10 pistol. Time will tell if the 45 or 40 will be the caliber of choice in single stack. Thanks Eric

[Bear23]

USPSA should be a sport where everyone is welcome and anyone can play.

SSD if fine with the current caliber configuration, manufacturers make them in many different calibers, pick what you want to shott and go for it.

SSD and L-10 are a win win in my area. They are two of the largest divisions at the club matches i put on.

Open only has anywhere from 1 to 3 shooters...

Production is on the move as well, we had 14 out of 45 shooters play in that division.

It's all good from where i stand.

[Bdavis]

USPSA should be a sport where everyone is welcome and anyone can play.

SSD if fine with the current caliber configuration, manufacturers make them in many different calibers, pick what you want to shott and go for it.

SSD and L-10 are a win win in my area. They are two of the largest divisions at the club matches i put on.

Open only has anywhere from 1 to 3 shooters...

Production is on the move as well, we had 14 out of 45 shooters play in that division.

It's all good from where i stand.

If the Single STack Nationals are any indication, the SSD is doing fairly well. While it may be strugglinlg at the club level, which I believe may be due to the fact that the classifiers don't count yet, it is alive and well. The National match was set up for 250 shooter over two days, with the staff shooting the day before the match. The dates of the match are April 27-28. By the third week of January Saturday was sold out, by the Valentines day Friday was sold out and we are looking at allowing some shooter who are on the waiting list (over 50 at this time) to possible shoot through with the staff. I don't recall another large match being sold out more than two months in advance!