Mickster Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 STI seems to be "the" gun for open and limited. I want to try my hand shooting in USPSA Production and want to avoid the cost of making the wrong choice. What would be the gun to use and in what caliber? And then, what would it take to make it competition ready? Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Huh. I'd say a 9mm from Glock, Beretta, CZ, or Sig. Make it competition ready by inserting a magazine and racking the slide. Sorry. Couldn't resist that. I think about the only thing you could do is get some different sights. I believe the Glocks are the most popular, and are arguably better because they have the same trigger pull for every shot. If you dislike that trigger pull, though, then maybe that same-ness isn't such a big benny. Semper Fi, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 In general (from what little I know) it seems like the Glock seems to be very popular. Some say the XD looks promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBChaffin Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I haven't shot much Production, but when I did, I shot a Glock. Around here, Glocks tend to be the most prevalent and do quite well. Just for kicks though, I looked at some of the major matches for 2002 and found the following results: 2002 World Shoot Production: 1st Glock (Sevigny) followed by several Tangifolios (CZ style at least) I believe. U.S. Factory Gun Nationals 1st Para LDA (Jarrett), 2nd Glock (Sevigny), 3rd Beretta (Langdon), 4th Sig Sauer (Olhasso), 5th (I'm not sure) (Lovett) Area 1 Champ: ? (I'm not sure) (Boyd) Area 2 Champ: Springfield XD (Leatham) Area 3 Champ: Glock (Kartozian) Area 4 Champ: Glock (McCartney) Area 5 Champ: Glock (Kartozian) Area 6 Champ: Glock (McCartney) Area 7 Champ: ? (Lovett) Area 8 Champ: Glock (Sevigny) AL Section: Glock (McCartney) GA Section: Glock (McCartney) MS Section: Glock (McCartney) Mid-Atlantic: Para LDA (Jarrett) OH Section: Beretta (Divita) TN Section: Glock (McCartney) VA Summer Blast: Para LDA (Jarrett) VT Aware Inv.: Para LDA (Jarrett) I apologize about any that I left out or stated incorrectly. I think any of the above could easily be competitive. Note that there are only a few more names than there are brands of guns. Interesting.... Production division in itself attempts to "level" the playing field. My thought would be find the one that YOU think feels the best, points the best, handles the best, and shoots the best for YOU. As far as caliber goes, most of the above shoot 9mm. A few shoot .40. There are some threads on that on this board. I really can't say which would be better. 9mm is cheaper to reload, in fact, it's cheap enough you might not have to reload. To make any of the guns competition ready for Production would require very little. Very little is in fact allowed. Some trigger work, maybe better sights. There are posts around here for modifications as well, but under Production rules the list will be relatively short. I hope others post here to help. Good luck to you in your decision and good shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Nationals was won by a Para LDA. Todd would win shooting any gun though. Glock seems to be favored by the top shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Mickster, If you reload, then a 40 Caliber Glock may be a good way to go. It can be downloaded to be most effective in Minor power factor in Production, or loaded to Major and you can kick butt with it in Limited or Limited 10. If you aren't reloading, then 9mm is the way to go. Glock's in 9mm seem to be the most popular there. but you gotta go with what works for you. For the tupperware, I suggest an extended mag release & 3.5lb connector (from Glock, standard on the G34/35's) and Heinie Slant Pro or Novak sights. Maybe some minor spring changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 [broken Record Mode ON] If you've got a pistol you use to carry or for self-defense, why not just shoot that? Who cares if it's "The Ultimate Production blaster?" Shooting Production is a great way to get intimately familiar with your current equipment. Why not give it a whirl? [broken Record Mode OFF] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Olhasso Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Any good quality factory gun that you shoot well is perfect in production. Obviousily I am partial to the Sig, but as long as the gun is accurate and reliable, then you are set. No matter what gun you choose (except the Para LDA) will have one big draw back: No decent sight options!!! All the replacement sights for production guns are of the combat type: big and fast, but not ideal for tight accuracy . Most people shooting limited have a front sight between .085 and .100 wide and a bomar type rear sight. I know of no factory produced front sight for a production gun (except the LDA) that is thinner than .125 wide. And the rear sight options are even worse. Unfortunately, this means that if you want decent IPSC type sights for your production blaster, either buy a mill or be prepared to pay someone to build them for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Mickster, the actual world champion team in Production (Italy) is entirely shooting Tanfoglio Stock. You can have a peek at this handgun at the following address: http://www.tanfoglio.it/sportandcompetition/stockbuzz.htm. The team members ranked 2nd, 4th, 6th and 22nd at the recent World shoot XII in SA, and all shoot the same handgun (as I said before). David: the above mentioned handgun sports the italian version of a Bo-Mar rear sight: it is manufactured by LPA and it is called supersight; it is the standard rear sight on all Tanfoglio sport pistols. (Edited by Skywalker67 at 12:50 am on Jan. 31, 2003) (Edited by Skywalker67 at 12:56 am on Jan. 31, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I shoot a Glock 35 in Limited. Dawson front fiber-optic sight (.115), Heinie rear. Methinks this combination would be fine (read: legal) for production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 300lbGorilla, dunno . Under Appendix E - Production Division: 26. Replacement sights are allowed as long at their installation requires no alteration to the slide and the type (i.e. adjustable) of sights installed is offered by the firearm manufacturer for that specific model. I don't think the Fiber-optics type front sight can be considered legal in Prod. since it is not factory provided on Glocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 300 lb. and skywalker, You're both right. Since Skywalker is in Italy, IPSC rules apply for him. 300 lbs. is in the USA, therefore USPSA rules apply. Just be sure to read the right appendix. The red USPSA 14th edition has two sets of divisions/rules for IPSC and USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Skywalker67, Mickster is in Florida, so I think he might be asking about USPSA Production rules. Mickster? Under USPSA, you can mill the slide for "melted-in" Bomar sights. Though pricey. USPSA also allows the fiber optic in the front sight, as long as it remains a "post and notch" type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 Thank you one and all for your valuable input. I tried my friends Beretta 92 a couple of times at some fun shoots. It points perfect and feels good but the single action trigger was so bad I ended up "short stroking" (not letting the trigger back far enough to reset) a couple of times. It took me forever to get the first shot off in double action mode too. Looks like I need to practice some. From the info I got from you guys it seems a full sized 9mm Glock would be the way to go, maybe the long slide version? However, I always did like how the CZ looked and read how ergonomically perfect it was so the Tanfoglio/CZ would be worth taking a look at too. Or maybe see if somebdy can put a decent trigger in the 92? It's for sale and I can pick it up at a very good price. What to do? Yes Flex, I live in the land of perpetual sunshine, scorching summer heat and take your breath away humidity so USPSA rules apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Mickster, The Beretta is a great choice for production. You see all the trick mileed out slides on the raceguns to lower the reciprocating mass? Beretta has done it for you. Plus, they don'y know how to jam, and will cycle anything. The elite 1 (discontinued, available used) or elite 2 are even better with better sights and beveled magwells. The trigger can be made sweeeeeeeet by Ernest Langdon. langdontactical.com It'll be 7 lbs da, 3.5 sa. Much better. The glock is also a fine pistol, but they point wrong for me and don't fit my hands. My point is, if you like the Beretta, it can be made even better. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 If you liked the Beretta, I'd say go with that. The Elite 2 is pretty cool looking, but they beefed up the slide, kinda doing the reverse of all the slide lightening. Also, you could have E. Langdon do a trigger job on it, but you can't get the "speed bump" trigger installed, because that would constitute an "external modification". Also, it's kinda hard to find holsters that will fit the thicker slide of the Elite pistols. So a regular 92fs might be the way to go, and then get a trigger job and a nice set of sights. Of course, a CZ and a Glock are always worth a try, if you can find a friend with one. The CZs are a real bargain, too. Good luck, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Steve - I looked at that website and I think DogmaDog is right - Langdon's guns w/that speedbump trigger are stricltly open/Limited/L10 - not allowed in production. Are there any other gunsmiths doing triggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 You can get the trigger job without without the speed bump. It's even cheaper that way. BTW, Amidon told Ernest the speed bump was legal for USPSA before he began installing them... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANDGUNNER Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Carlos,if your looking for a competition trigger/action job on a beretta,I also do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdh Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I shoot a Beretta 92 G Elite II with a Wilson Tactical Assault holster in production, it is a great setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Ernest was kind enough to send me Amisdon's reply on the speed bump when another of his customers inquired: -----Original Message----- From: VPUSPSA@aol.com [mailto:VPUSPSA@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:26 AM To: jeff@skunkabilly.com Subject: Re: Production Equipment Question In a message dated 4/24/02 12:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff@skunkabilly.com writes: Thanks for the quick reply John. I'm still a tiny bit confused: as for my LTT 'speedbump' trigger, that is NOT allowed for production, right? I believe that I replied to that as it is allowed, the rules state that action work to enhance reliability (throating, trigger work, etc.) is allowed, that would included replacing the trigger. This is going in the range bag... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Well, I guess I stand corrected. Wilson makes holsters for the brigadier slide (Elite and Elite II), and the speed bump trigger from Langdon is OK for production (although I bet that's a contentious issue in the future!). Also, Langdon does trigger jobs without the speed bump trigger, so that is an option, too. Thanks for setting me straight, gents! DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Glad to hear it! Thnaks for clearing that up as I shoot a Glock w/ the Glockmeister trigger with the overtravel-stop & was concerned it would not be allowed, but apparently, that would be OK. Was also considering the aluminum Glock tiggers, which also are apparently legal from your post. DVC, C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Carlos, I had an Al trigger in my G-34 for about 2 years. Eventually trigger pins started breaking and the problem stopped when I switched back to the factory Glock trigger. Also, the Al trigger can really heat up during an extended range session. I was getting sick of having to wait for my trigger to cool off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Here it is again...as an RO I needed confirmation: Subj: Re: Speedbump Date: 2/4/03 4:32:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: VP USPSA To: VLucchetti Hi Vince, I can see where someone would be confused, there were several emails, it started out talking just about the LLC trigger, of course we all know what that is.:-), my reply was that trigger work was allowed, a few days later, another email, again with the LLC, but this time, speedbump was added, I again replied that trigger work was allowed. Some time later, someone sent me a link showing the speedbump trigger and asked if this was legal, of course the trigger replacement is, but with the external modification, it is not. I have told Langdon in emails, that I do not have authority to overrule the rule book, and if an email was misleading or misinterpreted, the rules are still the rules, and that is, no external modifications other than sights allowed. So in closing, and to make it perfectly clear, the speedbump trigger in Production division, is not legal at this time. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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