2002 Infinity Open results

[ErikW]

Adam Popplewell won Open, Taran Butler won Limited. I think Travis Tomasie was second Open.

Bill Seevers was first Open A and I was first loser. Congratulations to Bill, it was a close battle! Paul Whitacre was right ahead of Bill.

Top 10 each in Open and Limited went to a special prize table with two $2,000 checks, two $1,000 checks, and many SV guns. And Second Chance body armor worth $1,000+.

Each class winner got a frame kit but didn't go the division prize tables. Limited 10, Production, and Revolver were considerably less subscribed; I think maybe the overall winners got frames, something like that.

At 17th (of 94?) Open I took a Dillon primer filler, SV hammer and sear, Green Mountain discount certificate, and Green Mountain bottle bag. I just missed a frame. There were many aimpoints, plus a few CED chronographs with infrared skyscreens.

Consensus is this match will fill to capacity next year after people hear about the prizes. In addition to the division tables, top 10 tables, and frames to class winners, they gave away two SV guns in a general raffle and one in the R.O. raffle, plus smaller prizes (mostly hammers & sears) to ROs.

Things were a little disorganized with a stage/range/squad schedule foul-up but not really a big deal. There was some shooting Friday, a lot of shooting Saturday, and a little shooting Sunday. A lot of the squads finished Saturday, as the M.D. was flexible. Probably the worst problem was the malfunctioning timers, which caused a lot of reshoots. Basically, most were brand-new out of the box and they hadn't been calibrated. Plus, substitute timers of two different makes just crapped out. Bad timer juju there.

Stage 4 got thrown out due to R.O. inconsistency with a possible shoot-through. Guess who was the shooter who brought the stage to a halt? I didn't even put up an arbitration fee. Hell, I hardly argued the RO's call that I had to reshoot. He was mainly responsible for getting it tossed.

Pretty good stages, straight up shootin', no unloaded gun starts or goofy start positions. The standards where you can run up was goofy... nearly everybody ran up. The speed shoot with the mandatory reload was goofy, as many people skipped the reload, ate the single procedural, and had higher hit factors. I smoked it in 6.09, 1 point down. Travis smoked it in 6.08 with the reload.

We set a record on the plank stage (28 rounds), Ron Filho ROing; we ran two squads through in 45 minutes, turning over each shooter in two minutes.

My Limited magazine juju followed me into Open and a short stick tied up on the Shuffle stage. I had to reshoot it when the timer read 1.65. My reshoot was ten times slower, with a miss.

I stayed at the Suncoast... if you want to shoot in Vegas and not drive 45 minutes from the strip to the range each day, the Suncoast is the place to stay. Four stars, blows away that AZ Charlies slum hotel.

[TDean]

Thanks for the report Erik.  

I'm impatiently waiting for the official results...

Kudos to Taran!  That guy did very well at a recent three gun match also right?  Is it too much to say he's the best "all'round" shooter in the world?

[ErikW]

Yes, Mike Voigt or Jerry Miculek or Bruce Piatt excel at more kinds of shooting competitions.

[BradC]

Tavis's reload on stage 5 was a 1.02 ... SMOKING fast.  An absolute BLAST to watch!!!

BradC

A46143

[B.J. Norris]

Anybody know where Phil Strader finished?

[BamBam]

Congratulations to Uncle Bill for yet another "A" class win.  Now stop playing around and jump in with the big boys!!   Speaking of which... where were Jarrett, Barnhart, Leatham, et. al?  

[ErikW]

JJ was second Open, TT third. TJ and the Burner were not present.

Phil was second Limited with The Great One third. Alex Chang was fourth; he told me the top three were all within a few points of each other.

A lot of STI shirts were worn. I suspect a few people have sponsorship deals which require they wear them, but as for the rest, well ...

(Edited by Erik Warren at 2:33 pm on Oct. 21, 2002)

(Edited by Erik Warren at 11:10 am on Oct. 22, 2002)

[BSeevers]

Adam

Then I'll have to beat up on the likes of you

My take. Best paying match in 10 years. People having fun. AZ Charlies is a dump, but cheap. Vegas should host every Nationals. Great range, REAL cheap to stay and fly to. You stay 15 minutes from range and can eat a $50 steak dinner on the way home. Well you can do that in Bend(45 minute drive) but I mean one that tastes like its worth $50.

I think some shooters were broke from Nat's and World Shoot so they didn't show up. If I was to only shoot one match next year this would be it. Organization and RO's a little green but in all this was a GREAT match and I will be shooting it next year. Even if I don't win a slot

Thanks Erik.

I got to meet more BE regulars too.

[sincityshooter]

Hey Erik.  Why shoot through a paper target to hit steel when you already know that it will be a reshoot?  I heard from more than a few shooters that you were personally responsible for ruining a good stage.

[Flexmoney]

sin,

How is he responsible for stage design that allows a shoot-thru???

[PaulW]

Hey Bill & Erik......

It was great meeting you guys.  It's always nice to be able to put a face to the name.  Congrats to both of you guys, a job well done.

My overall take of the match was in the beginning a disappointment.  It seemed so unorganized and I expected it to have a big match appeal, whatever that is.  This was my first match out of the state of florida and first time to vegas.  I think, as Erik said, next year will fill up after seeing what the prize table was like and seeing all the guns they gave away.  I'd shoot it again if I had the chance.  There are always some growing pains with putting on a new match.  

Well I sure did not put on a very good showing.  I just could not get comforatble on a few stages and it really cost me.  Some of the stages seemed a little silly.  While others gave you about 20 different ways to shoot it.  I think I should have been a little more aggressive, I don't really know what happened.  No excusses, just didn't perform very well.  Back to work!!

[PaulW]

Great to meet you Bill and Erik!  Always nice to put a face to the name. Congrats on great finishes as well.

The match in my opinion started off a little disappointing.  I guess I expected something more in a big match atmoshspere.  This was my first match out of the state of Florida and my first time to Vegas.  I think part of the problem was that it is a new match and there are always some growing pains with a new match this side.  I remember my first time running FIPT, so I think it will get better.

The stages, well some were great, you could shoot it twenty different ways, while others seemed a little silly.  I think overall the stages we ok, but a liitle more thought into a few of them and they would all have been "Good" stages.  

Well overall I felt I shoot pretty poor.  I just could not get comfortable on a few stages in how I wanted to shoot them and it really cost me.  No excuses just a poor match.  But thats the way it goes and you go out and practice even harder.

The prize table made the whole match better.  I have never seen a prize table like this.  Many, many guns were given away.  They had lunch for shooters and guests each day.  I believe they should be able to fill the match next year if they are able to have a similar prize table.  

Had fun, Vegas was great, but I swear the black jack dealers are magicians.  They pulled some of the craziest cards out of there a$$!!  I guess it was the right thing to do as a guest is to help pay their taxes. LOL

[PaulW]

Geez, soory about the similar post.  Typed the first one and was wondering what happened to it.  Jet lag is still with me, sorry.

And oh yea, Erik did not get that stage thrown out.  He shot it it what he thought was going to give him the best time and the best points.  Plus he was not the first guy to do it.  Bottom line was that it was a poor stage design, it happens.  

[TDean]

I didn't know Erik had the power to toss stages all by himself.  I would think that a group of *intelligent* people made the decision, no?

I can certainly see many shooters grumbling about it, especially those who shot it well, but the MD made the call so.....

[ErikW]

Oh yeah, this was a big deal to some of us: The deli lunches were great, the Sunday hot lunch was good enough, and both were free. We didn't have to drive back into town for lunch.

sincityshooter, is that a hypothetical question or are you assuming I shot through the target (deliberately or unintentionally)?

The fact is I took care to avoid even appearing to shoot through it by aiming for the high part of the A zone, then I engaged another static, then finally I squatted down and took the popper below the target in question. In fact I missed it at least once. It was totally obvious to the people in my squad and the people in the next squad, including PaulW, that I had not shot through. When the RO was scoring, he found the target in question had two hits about level with the letter A. (For somebody my height it would take a C/D hit to shoot through into the popper; for somebody kneeling or squatting, it's impossible for those hits to go through into the popper.) He said I had to reshoot because there was a possibility of a shoot-through. I argued my last shot was the only one to hit the popper and asked if heard it. He insisted his only job was to watch the gun. (Whatever happened to benefit of the doubt? You should only call the shoot-through if you're absolutely sure it happened.) He went and got the MD/RM, not at my request, as I went to load mags for a reshoot after my initial appeal to him feal on deaf ears.

I even showed RM Terry Tichenor how to keep the stage in the match by putting up some cardboard next to the target which would indicate shoot-throughs. He didn't want to do it.

I wouldn't call it poor design, just imperfect. Shjt happens. I can live with their decision to toss it because our RO was making us reshoot for engaging that popper from the right, whereas other ROs weren't. I would have shot it differently on my reshoot, just to appease the RO, who made it clear he wasn't having any of this gaming the stage by engaging the popper from the right.

I don't see how I'm personally responsible for ruining the stage. A couple shooters before me did the same thing and were in line to reshoot. I was just the straw that broke the RO's back. The designer(s) and/or builder(s) are responsible for the shoot-through. The RO is responsible for the unfair officiating.

This just goes to show what a problem it is to have different ROs run a stage. The stage has to be absolutely freestyle, absolutely bulletproof for that. The ROs should check with the CRO and RM before making any remotely questionable call about start position, procedurals, etc. This is what our $200+ buys us at the nationals, consistent officiating. At the Infinity Open it bought us prizes.

[PaulW]

Erik,

Your last sentence was perfect and right on.  By having roaming RO's it makes you wonder if all the stages were run consistantly.  Not that I have a question about any of them, but makes you wonder.  

I still say it was poor corse design, not whatever you said above.  I did not say it was bad, just did not have enough people walk the stage and look at all the possibilities.  It's so easy to miss something like that because most people would have already shot that popper.  

[ErikW]

The first thing I did when walking through the stage was to figure out how to avoid going to the barrel and the left side. I was real iffy about shooting the middle paper (including the shoot-through one) through the middle or getting all that from the right.

When I'm doing the safety/gameability appraisal walk-through of a stage (I'm on a local match committee) one of the things I do is try to find spots where I can shoot everything. And it's imperative to think counter to the designer, to look for shots from unexpected positions. Lean way out, look over, look under, etc. Others sometimes find these problems with my own stages. Freestyle is a bjtch for course designers.

To me, those right side shots stood out like a Vegas casino at night.

[BSeevers]

I just counted out of 94 Open shooters 20 were A class. Now I really feel good.

[sincityshooter]

Great explanation for what happened Erik.  I heard that the stage was thrown out for 2 reasons:  People were shooting the drop turner before shooting the activator and shooters were intentionaly shooting through the paper to hit the popper.  

Bad stage design?  Perhaps.  The question is this:  How many shooters walked the stage prior to the match and noticed a problem and didn't say anything?  I see too many shooters that spend too much time gaming courses, they become GM gamers shooting at a C class speed.  Although it's not their responsibilility, it's a must to keep this sport going.  The match director puts tons of time into a match, it's unfortunate when stages get thrown out.  

Matches like this take TONS of work.  I know because I was out there Wed and Thurs.  Most clubs don't have a group of shooters that can spend weeks building props and elaborate stage designs.  I though the stages were great considering the lack of help and little set-up time.  It's also tough finding R.O.'s that are willing to spend 20+ hours on the range, which is the reason behind the different R.O.'s.  If you don't get the volunteer's then the choice is easy, do anything in your power to keep the match running.

This match had some firsts that were very impressive:  Delivering bottled water to the bays, having seats for the shooters, lunch provided for free every day, and over $8k prizes raffled off during the match.  

Iwould expect that next years event will get 300+ shooters out with awesome competition, perhaps better props, and the same incredible Dave Uchita atmosphere.

[BigDave]

I saw Jimmy Reed placed 8th in Open.  Where has he been lately?

[BSeevers]

Jimmy has been working as a SV gunmaker. They hired him a few years ago and I think Sandy hasn't let him out of the plant since.

[ErikW]

Jimmy Reed was one of the raffle gun winners, IIRC.

sincityshooter, the drop turner was a static target when we got there. It had been inconsistent or something so they made it static, allowing previous shooters to reshoot or accept their scores. Yet another reason to toss it.

My favorite part of the match was having Dave Uchida, who will be the first to admit he will shamelessly game the shjt out of a stage, start making comments about us shooting the intent of the stage, the way it was set up. Irony at its best!

The bottled water was another nice touch. Actual hydration instead of USPSA Dixie cups which barely wet your whistle.

[38supPat]

Good to see the Canadians do so well

Mike Auger: Top Senior and 13th overall

Doni Johnston: Top Lady

Also interesting to see that Open was the largest division, followed by Limited...but Lim 10, production and revolver were all very small.

(Edited by Pat Harrison at 4:42 pm on Oct. 22, 2002)

[MattBurkett]

PaulW, "The stages, well some were great, you could shoot it twenty different ways, while others seemed a little silly.  I think overall the stages we ok, but a liitle more thought into a few of them and they would all have been "Good" stages.  

Well overall I felt I shoot pretty poor.  I just could not get comfortable on a few stages in how I wanted to shoot them and it really cost me.  No excuses just a poor match.  But thats the way it goes and you go out and practice even harder. "

So are the complaints about the stages just related to your poor shooting of them? Could you perhaps be more specific on how we could improve them next year? Looks like they were tough enough for you. :-) How would you have changed them?

Eric W, "This is what our $200+ buys us at the nationals, consistent officiating."  How many nationals have you shot? I have seen it all at the different nationals as far as officiating mistakes.

Congrats to everyone involved. It was a great match with a hell of a prize table. I know, I set up the prizes. Last place in open and limited got about $200 worth of stuff.

I will be putting some video of some of the stages online this week. Will post when it is ready.

I am going to go play with my new RC car that I won, which ironically has too big of a motor to race at the local track.  LOL

Take care,

[Singlestack]

A RC car as a prize at a shooting match???

That sounds kind-a-strange.