bp78 Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) I'm finally shooting enough that I can no longer deny the economy of reloading. The bulk of my shooting is 9mm from a 5" 1911 which is where I plan to start reloading. I have been running commercial 115gr FMJ UMC & WWB and 125gr RNL Ultramax without a problem. I prefer the longer OAL of the WWB and would like to reload either 125gr or 147gr because I've gotten the impression that it takes down the steel better. (true/false?) As a new reloader, I'm looking for general advice on bullet type, primers, and powder that will be safe and simple to get started on. Are 147's easy to seat than 122's? Suggestions regarding jacketed, lead, or moly? Any powder selections that won't allow a double charge perhaps? (i.e. a double charge would fill the case beyond being able to seat a bullet?) My primary goal in reloading is to beat commercial ammo prices so costs are also a factor. I'm just looking for some load suggestions to get started on to get some experience before moving on to other loads/calibers or experimenting. Thanks. bp Edited January 20, 2007 by bp78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 BP - My recommendation would be 147 grain cast or coated bullets. The best cast bullets I've found so far are by Kead Bullets http://www.keadbullets.com in terms of price and quality. They're just about the right hardness for 9x19, and the 147s can be loaded to the same OAL as the WWB (1.15"). Both of my 9x19s (Beretta 92 and CZ-75B) like them. They charge $8.10 shipping for up to 2k bullets. Polymer coated bullets are a step up in price, but one that IMO is worth it due to less firing residue. My preference here is Precision Bullets http://www.precisionbullets.com . The owner is a big supporter of the shooting sports and offers a quality product. 1k of 9x19 147s costs $51 delivered. For a bulky powder, use Unique. 3.7 grains under a 147 grain lead will make the power factor with room to spare, functions well and is accurate in my guns. If you get crazy and want to shoot jacketed bullets, you have room to safely increase the charge to make the PF (jacketed bullets take more powder to get the same velocity). Some old heads here will tell you that it's a dirty powder, and the old version was, but it's much better now than it used to be. If you shoot cast bullets, get into the habit of pulling the extractor and cleaning it when you clean your gun. I was recently reminded of this when my CZ jammed for the first time in several thousand rounds during a match last weekend due to cast bullets residue in the hook. A .22 bore brush works nicely in the 1911's extractor tunnel. Some people will tell you that cast bullets will always fill your barrel with lead. That's malarky. Get yours sized .356 - .3565" and you won't have any problems with this. Kead sizes theirs .3565". Stay away from bullets sized .355"; they are on the edge of being too small. That .001" makes a big difference. Some things you need to get if you don't have them already: a dial caliper and a chronograph. The dial caliper is used to check overall length and case mouth diameter; the chrono is used to check velocity and consistency. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 If you shoot cast bullets, get into the habit of pulling the extractor and cleaning it when you clean your gun. I was recently reminded of this when my CZ jammed for the first time in several thousand rounds during a match last weekend due to cast bullets residue in the hook. A .22 bore brush works nicely in the 1911's extractor tunnel. Not a bad idea under any circumstances, but I'm a little fuzzy on what this has to do with lead bullets. As far as I know, the lead part of bullets is always well in front of the extractor when they go off. On the other hand, a dirty powder, like the Bullseye powder I use, can clog everything, including the extractor, if not cleaned properly. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTerry Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I'm finally shooting enough that I can no longer deny the economy of reloading. The bulk of my shooting is 9mm from a 5" 1911 which is where I plan to start reloading. I have been running commercial 115gr FMJ UMC & WWB and 125gr RNL Ultramax without a problem. I prefer the longer OAL of the WWB and would like to reload either 125gr or 147gr because I've gotten the impression that it takes down the steel better. (true/false?)As a new reloader, I'm looking for general advice on bullet type, primers, and powder that will be safe and simple to get started on. Are 147's easy to seat than 122's? Suggestions regarding jacketed, lead, or moly? Any powder selections that won't allow a double charge perhaps? (i.e. a double charge would fill the case beyond being able to seat a bullet?) My primary goal in reloading is to beat commercial ammo prices so costs are also a factor. I'm just looking for some load suggestions to get started on to get some experience before moving on to other loads/calibers or experimenting. Thanks. bp Your "primary goal" is probably not achievable with 9-mm - I don't think it is possible to reload for the current price of the WWB 100-round "Value Pack" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp78 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 My primary goal in reloading is to beat commercial ammo prices so costs are also a factor. Your "primary goal" is probably not achievable with 9-mm - I don't think it is possible to reload for the current price of the WWB 100-round "Value Pack" I've heard that quoted in the past too. Now that WWB is up to $13.85 /100 and 9mm brass will be either free or near free I'd suspect 9mm reloads with cast/cheap bullets to beat Wal*Mart prices. Anyone have current math on that subject? If/when I move on to .45acp & .223 I'd expect to see better savings too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Hey Barry I would like about 25 K of the free 9 mm brass you refer too. Reloading Cost. Edited January 21, 2007 by Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 If you shoot cast bullets, get into the habit of pulling the extractor and cleaning it when you clean your gun. I was recently reminded of this when my CZ jammed for the first time in several thousand rounds during a match last weekend due to cast bullets residue in the hook. A .22 bore brush works nicely in the 1911's extractor tunnel. Not a bad idea under any circumstances, but I'm a little fuzzy on what this has to do with lead bullets. As far as I know, the lead part of bullets is always well in front of the extractor when they go off. On the other hand, a dirty powder, like the Bullseye powder I use, can clog everything, including the extractor, if not cleaned properly. Lee Lee - It's not lead, but apparently a combination of bullet lube and burnt powder. It comes off easily, you just need to remember to dig it out. You'll find the same gunk around the outline of the case rim on the breech face on both autos and revolvers, and in the breech face/top strap angle on revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousekiller Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Hey BarryI would like about 25 K of the free 9 mm brass you refer too. Reloading Cost. Yeah ME TO ! free brass.. don't I wish. Well according to the calculator.. it cost me $109 and change for 1000 fully loaded 9mm bullets.. Hmm.. @ 13.85 x 10 = $138.50 I think i'm saving some money on the bullets.. Please keep in mind though that does NOT include the initial cost of the reloading equipment, and your time, which even if your doing this for fun has a value. Personally i enjoy the reloading process gives me some "me" time and i find it relaxing.. Good luck Jeff Edited January 21, 2007 by Mousekiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp78 Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 Thanks for the information and links. Jeff, What load were those numbers for and what did you price the brass at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eager Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 New prices at Wal-Mart: $14.56 per 100 rd "value pack" of WWB 9 mm 115 gr FMJ not just for me, has been reported on other forums in other locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) If any LE in your area shoot 9mm, find out when and where and you may be able to score free brass. That's what I did and I was able to score all of the .40 brass and .223 I can carry. My 9mm round is 124 Montanna Gold 124grn. Winchester Small Primers, Mixed Brass, and either N330 or TiteGroup. Do a search for steel loads in the 9mm forum and you should be able to find the numbers. And before you go and load up a zillion rounds, buy a few hundred and run them through your gun to make sure they work. My 9mm 1911 is pretty finicky about what I feed it. I'll second (or third) the advice about the extractors. I try and remember to pull mine out and clean it about every 1000 rnds or so. Edited January 25, 2007 by DanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Hiya Barry -- At local USPSA (strong hint!) matches, you'll often run into a fellow that sells components and parts at extremely good prices -- basically online prices, without having to pay the surcharge of HAZMAT handling. Right now, I notice Angus (www.ghostholster.com) has 124gr Zero jacketed bullets for $54/k shipped, if you buy 3k, and that's a super bullet. I'd think you could easily get to around $90.00/k reloaded, even buying brass. Two years ago, I didn't bother loading 9mm because it seemed you could easily buy a case online for $110-$120 shipped. Now, no way. Plus what you load will be more accurate, tuned for your pistol, yadda yadda, all the stuff you know already. See ya -- Steve oh -- forgot to add: the F.E.T.C will rent you their nice chrono for $5.00/hr. *Very* nice. Edited January 25, 2007 by boo radley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I like to use the Barry's or Rainier 147 gr. bullets in my 9mm. They do a nice job on stell plates at ca 900 fps or slightly less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I too just paid $14.56 for a WWB 100 round 9mm 115 grain FMJ Value Pack ealier this evening. This weekend, I'm ordering the conversion stuff I need for my Dillon XL650 and will be reloading 9mm from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Brass IS free. You know how? Because a lot of people still think that WWB is so cheap it isn't worth to reload and leave their brass behind. It costs me a couple of waist level bends, but thats good for my figure. During my shooting history which only started around 2000, reloading 9mm has always been cheaper then buying it. When the factory ammo was around $100, heads where around $30. As for the original question, my opinion is that 147 at 130pf feels a bit sluggish. I prefer the recoil of 124 which to me are a much better compromise of snap to push, but that is a personal choice. Try so of each and see what you like best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousekiller Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) Thanks for the information and links. Jeff, What load were those numbers for and what did you price the brass at? That load was for 147 Berry's RN , Mixed brass bought once fired 3k of it shipped bought on ebay 46.00 shipped, Winchester small pistol primers and Titegroup powder bought in an 8 lb jug. And which i chrono'd yesterday and they made 130pf.. about 870 avg fps... 3.3 gr TG @ 1.150 oal .379 crimp. However the Win 231 rounds i loaded didn't make minor... but that was probably my fault i was not belling the case properly and was having seating difficulties and they were mostly longer then 1.150.. and some crimped tighter and some were looser.. so not very consistant. I do think though that the TG gives a slightly sharper recoils pulse then the win 231.. but got to compare apples to apples so i have to get the 231 load up to 130pf.. Jeff. Edited January 29, 2007 by Mousekiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwoodski Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Hey Barry I would like about 25 K of the free 9 mm brass you refer too. Reloading Cost. Yeah ME TO ! free brass.. don't I wish. Well according to the calculator.. it cost me $109 and change for 1000 fully loaded 9mm bullets.. Hmm.. @ 13.85 x 10 = $138.50 I think i'm saving some money on the bullets.. Please keep in mind though that does NOT include the initial cost of the reloading equipment, and your time, which even if your doing this for fun has a value. Personally i enjoy the reloading process gives me some "me" time and i find it relaxing.. Good luck Jeff You know with a little effort.....brass can be free......If the range you shoot at lets you pick brass after a match (ours does). In 15 minutes after a match, I can pick up as much brass as i want to pack, but usually 300 rounds or so. My avg weekly match is 80rnds....so thats 220 to the good.....doesn't take long to get a good stock pile of brass. It allows me to pick out the junk (old reloads...crappy brass). Tons of folks are shooting WWB and the brass is mostly just once fired. puts my reloaded round price with lead bullets at 7.2 cents a round and 8.8 cts for fmj..... now when WWB was $10 a hundred.....i wouldn't reload 9mm for $1 savings a 100.....but for $7 or $8 a hundred......Thats a different animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Right now, I notice Angus (www.ghostholster.com) has 124gr Zero jacketed bullets for $54/k shipped, if you buy 3k, and that's a super bullet. Get them now. I just got Zero's lastest dealer price sheet. They went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I just ordered 10K Zero 115gr JHP and they ran out at $619 including shipping to MO. Dealer price as I also ordered 125K for the shop. Normal price is somewhere around $65 per 1000 shipped. Glad only half of those are for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I recently shot a class with Manny Bragg at Universal Shooting Academy so I had to build up a cache of 2000 rounds of 9mm to shoot through my G34. I purchased 1000 rounds of CCI Blazer 115FMJ (aluminum case) for $5.69 per box of 50 at Academy Sports. This was my favorite load and had the best groups. Academy also sells Monarch 9mm in 115FMJ with metal casings (Russian, non-corrosive) for $4.86 per box. This Monarch shoot 100% reliable in my SIG226 and stock G17 - I have about one light primer hit per box of 50 with my G34 with light trigger. I purchased 1000 rounds of Remington UMC 115FMJ (brass cases) for $6.99 per box at Dick's Sporting Goods. However, since I buy ammo all the time at Dick's (shotgun, 223, and 9); I get a "preferred customer" coupon almost every month for $10 - $20 off and that really drops the cost. I have a full setup to load 9mm but at $4.86 to $6 per box I cannot justify the hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 (edited) If you are paying $5 a 50 for 9mm ($100 per 1K) then reloading is something that has to carefully considered, as long as the accuracy was there I would probably not reload. Remember you will only save less than $10 a thousand over reloading. But at $6 a 50 ($120) per 1K I might just reload. I am sure I could get a load that recoils less and shoot more accurate and save the $28 a thousand. I would go through about 20K per annum so that is $600. That would pay for the DIllon XL650 and ancilliary equipment within 2 years. I don't mind spending two or three hours a week loading. I gives me a break from the wife and kids and I am actually doing something I enjoy. I worked my loading costs as follows. Projectile: Zero 115gr or 125gr JHP. $65 per 1000. By buying a goodly amount. Powder: Titegroup at $50 per 4lb 4.3gr = 1600 per pound = $7.81 per 1K. Primers: WSP or Fed 100 at $95 per 5000 = $19 per 1K. $65+$7.81+$19=$91.81 per 1K. That is for JHP not FMJ which by buying bulk (20K+) you can get a way better price. The most important factor to consider is what accuracy you get with factory v's reload. Factory has to shoot pretty bloody good for me to use over my reloads, which you do have the opportunity to tune to your handgun. All this is based on 9mm, with other calibres the savings are generally better. Edited March 19, 2007 by gm iprod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Cheapest WWB I can find locally is $17.99 for 100 box on sale. Rem UMC 115 is $39 for 250. So I bought a Dillion Square Deal "B". I get free 9mm brass from shoots and so far I am very pleased. For as much as it would cost to buy factory ammo, I get more rounds to shoot and practice with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Hello; I calculated my reloads for 9mm and they come out $3.89/50. I get free brass and use Precision bullets,Winchester primers and Tite Group powder. Nobody picks up 9mm brass since it is so cheap to buy WWB right? Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp78 Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 (edited) Hello; I calculated my reloads for 9mm and they come out $3.89/50. Since opening this thread, I've loaded about 3500 rounds on my new 550b. With 4.45gr Unique, WSPs, 125gr Precision Molys, I'm running $4.48/50 (89.61/k). That includes paying for 9mm brass, although with as much as I pick at matches I could probably up my 'reuse' rate considerably in that calculation. In the end, I probably don't save anything reloading, I just shoot more. But it's much better than factory prices plus I get a nice soft 125gr load that I like better than WWB. Edited May 26, 2007 by bp78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Your "primary goal" is probably not achievable with 9-mm - I don't think it is possible to reload for the current price of the WWB 100-round "Value Pack" I reload 9mm and save $35+ per thousand. Hell, the satisfaction of shooting my own ammo is worth double that in satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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