Sherwyn Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Would like to lighten the duties of our small club officer. So have several questions about how Palm scoring might be used at club match with 2 squads shooting. Can anyone using these give me an idea of startup costs? Would the units available from Double-Alpha work for 2 squads, and be able to combine results for a match? Are the results in format that are ready for upload to USPSA? How long does it take to set up a five stage match on the Palm? If only one was used, would it show match results, or is an onsight computer always needed? TIA Sherwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Sherwyn, I'm not going to be much help in answering your question, but I want to point out that the little Palm IIIe units that I've seen employed in doing the Palm scoring are getting unbelievably cheap on eBay. I actually use one of these for maintaining my daily schedule, and every now and then I drop it and break the screen. I just bought an extra Palm IIIe last week off eBay and I paid only $10 and it works perfectly. So I'm thinking if the Palm scoring softward could be acquired inexpensively, the actual handheld hardware could be pretty cheap. You'd need the little printer thingies, I guess..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I'd like to hear more as well. Seems like this would be a great way to go. Has anybody seen this used on a Level 2 or 3 sanctioned match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 How much is the software these days? AFAIK, the "lite" version Saul sells can't be used to do a full match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 http://www.autoscoringsystems.com/ The Match version is: $310.00 AUD = 238.315 USD Probably well worth the investment if it eliminates data entry issues which are the bane of my local club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I'd like to hear more as well. Seems like this would be a great way to go. Has anybody seen this used on a Level 2 or 3 sanctioned match? Been used at the last 4 Area 7's Really cuts down on stats workload, as all data entry is done at the stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmzneb Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 We use them at Eastern Nebraska Gun club and they are pretty nice. I don't have any idea on the startup costs of the system. You can email our match director Chris Davies as he can probably answer your questions: CDDavies@aol.com Chris seems to be very knowledgable about this system. We do have a computer at the range, and within 5 minutes of completing the match, the Palms are downloaded to the computer, and they spit out the results. The only little thing I personally don't like about them is that they are set up basically for Pistol only matches. When we shoot 3-gun matches, there is no way to score major/minor on each firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 http://www.autoscoringsystems.com/The Match version is: $310.00 AUD = 238.315 USD Probably well worth the investment if it eliminates data entry issues which are the bane of my local club. Yeah, but the website FAQ's say that is PER palm pilot! You don't just buy one copy and install it on as many devices as you want. Of course, it also says if you buy 10, you get 1 free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) That is essentially what I found and th main reason I have not bought it. We run 7 stages on a regular basis, plus sidematches and we also run a 9 plus stage match 2-3 times a year. I'd need at least 10 units. Peter Cunningham, the guy that made this, will do some sort of a deal based on a mission count. He was trying to get USPSA to buy into it. Sadly, while I think that the system has great potential, I think that his costs simply outweigh the usefullness. I can not justify $3,100 dollars for a scoring system that may not be supported a year from now. Jim Edited November 20, 2006 by Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 That is essentially what I found and th main reason I have not bought it. We run 7 stages on a regular basis, plus sidematches and we also run a 9 plus stage match 2-3 times a year. I'd need at least 10 units. Peter Cunningham, the guy that made this, will do some sort of a deal based on a mission count. He was trying to get USPSA to buy into it. Sadly, while I think that the system has great potential, I think that his costs simply outweigh the usefullness. I can not justify $3,100 dollars for a scoring system that may not be supported a year from now. Jim I talked to Peter at length about his software. Our club too does a couple of big matches a year consisting of 10+ stages in addition to our monthly matches where normally we have 65-80 shooters to score. He wanted every shooter to pay a 5 buck (give or take) fee every time we used his software including our monthly matches. Wow!!!!!!!! I tried to explain to him that he is basically asking for a royalty to be paid by the shooters that is next to impossible to justify. His software while a great product does nothing to make the stages better or make shooting our club more attractive to shoot than another club that is not using his program. So, how can I justify the extra cost to the shooter? I CAN'T. I could see perhaps paying his fee for our two large "special" matches but not on a monthly basis. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Kinda sad, a great product messed up by poor marketing. I bet more than ten times as many clubs would try this for $200 versus $2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I'd have no problems paying $200/yr as a club for the right to use the software. $200 per palm pilot is not going to happen. That would literally evaporate our bank account right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Its a shame too because it makes scoring so easy and almost foolproof. The program won't let you advance unless you have input all of the required fields. You CAN'T have a score without a time or one with missing hits. I have used the palm several times for medium to large matches and it really helps the scoring portion flow much more smoothly. The Green Mountain Practical shooters was able to procure the palm scoring system and will be employing it once again at next year's AWARE combined with the AREA 7 championship. (Which I have officially coined the "2007 AWAREA 7") I'll have to ask the club president what kind of a deal he was able to work out. I know the club buys the Palm units dead cheap and uses them for all of their matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 That is essentially what I found and th main reason I have not bought it. We run 7 stages on a regular basis, plus sidematches and we also run a 9 plus stage match 2-3 times a year. I'd need at least 10 units. Peter Cunningham, the guy that made this, will do some sort of a deal based on a mission count. He was trying to get USPSA to buy into it. Sadly, while I think that the system has great potential, I think that his costs simply outweigh the usefullness. I can not justify $3,100 dollars for a scoring system that may not be supported a year from now. Jim According to the club president of Green Mountain, the club license is $1000 and lets you run 2 masters and up to 20 slave units. Once you own the software, you run as many mathes as you want with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moverfive Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 According to the club president of Green Mountain, the club license is $1000 and lets you run 2 masters and up to 20 slave units. Once you own the software, you run as many mathes as you want with it. I think that is "old" pricing. Because Tim has been actively trying to get the software for our club - but the quotes he has been giving us is almost ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 According to the club president of Green Mountain, the club license is $1000 and lets you run 2 masters and up to 20 slave units. Once you own the software, you run as many mathes as you want with it. I think that is "old" pricing. Because Tim has been actively trying to get the software for our club - but the quotes he has been giving us is almost ridiculous. I think they got them this past spring in anticipation of the AWARE match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBudd Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 How much are clubs willing to spend on a scoring program for handhelds/palms? I do software development for a living and occasionally do freelance work with a few coworkers. I'm sure we cold build software for less than $5 per shooter per match, but the real question is how much are people willing to pay? If there is enough interest and it would be profitable, I'm sure we could bang out this project. Of course, if only 3 clubs would use the software and they only want to pay $19.95, it isn't worth our time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 How much are clubs willing to spend on a scoring program for handhelds/palms? I do software development for a living and occasionally do freelance work with a few coworkers. I'm sure we cold build software for less than $5 per shooter per match, but the real question is how much are people willing to pay? If there is enough interest and it would be profitable, I'm sure we could bang out this project. Of course, if only 3 clubs would use the software and they only want to pay $19.95, it isn't worth our time. Originally, when I first talked to Peter he mentioned the 1000 dollar deal he made for the folks doing the aware match and sounded like he was extending the same offer to me. So, I took it to our BOD and we voted to buy the software for said amount. For a thousand dollars that would be a buy out. No pay per use. He then decided since he is trying to get the USPSA to take over the thing and just charge members a fee to upload any scores that has used his system and pass the fee on to him until he has made his money back (He invested a ton), that he would give me the software as long as I would pay him per shooter for all matches including our local monthly match. Not a sole in our club would agree to that. When you do the math on that deal our one club would have to send him +/- $5000.00 every year. Palm software as I'm sure you know can not be very involved because of the platform. Extremely powerful computer programs sell for around 1K (such as DV editing software or digital audio software ect.) 1K for his set up to me is a very hefty price for palm software but was worth it to our club since we have so many shooters every month. So, I can't speak for every club, but that is what we were willing to pay for his software. Tim TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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