unclez Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ok, as some may know I have just started reloading. Was shooting to get a 130 to 132 PF and everything I read about this data shot out of a G34 everyone was getting 130 to 132 PF but when I shot it I averaged like 127 PF out of the same gun. Can someone help? Here is the load and the chrono results. Zero 147gn JHP 3.2gn Titegroup 1.150 WSP .377 crimp 882.5 880.0 848.2 861.7 Avg. - 868.1 848.2 851.9 878.3 Avg. - 859.4 838.8 860.2 844.0 858.4 Avg. - 850.3 Confused as to why my readings are so much lower than everyone else's using the same load and same gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Different barrels, different lot of bullets, difference in chrono's, elevation, temperature... Lots of variables. Don't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Yeah, don't sweat it. 3.2 TG under 147's is the right combination for MOST guns (132pf in my CZ) but there is way to much variation in brass, bullets, barrel, primers, batches of powder, humidity, elevation, etc to be a perfect number. If 127pf is to close for you then use 3.3 and you should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclez Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks guys. I feel a little better now. I'll probably move it up to 3.3 as suggested. Just curious though, With a 1.150 OAL, how much would you have to shorten this cartridge to achieve the 130 - 132 from a 127 and keep the 3.2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Dont shorten the load. TG is cheap, kick that puppy a tenth or two.------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Take it to at least 132 or better yet 135+. TG will show the 30+ fps swings no matter what you do from my experience until you get pressures up pretty darn high and use rifle primers. If I load TG I like to load it so that the lowest 5 out of about 50 rounds will still make PF. In 40 I ended up over 175 to get there, then I bumped it another 5 to compensate for temp and humidity differences between here and where I was going to shoot. It was a good thing too, my load made 181 the day before I left and 165.1 at the match....... Don't play with OAL for PF, it isn't a linear progression so you won't get X FPS per .010" shorter. You may get X FPS this time, but another .010" shorter may get you Y FPS. Hope that makes sense. Pressure also plays into this, the pressure won't get uniformly higher as the OAL gets shorter. At a certain point pressure will go up a LOT in proportion to how much the OAL decreased. You will be much better served just bumping the charge up a tenth or three using an OAL that number one is realistic and two feeds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 In addition to scale, powder, primer brass, climate and barrel variations: is your crimp possibly too much? A .355 bullet diameter, plus two sides of the brass @ .012 each = .379 minimum. You indicate .377 therefore you may be "crushing" the bullet a tad too much for your gun's chamber and barrel. When the round is fired with these fast powder soft loads perhaps the base of the bullet is not obturating quickly enough, not getting a good seal, and you are losing gas, thus wasted energy. Just a thought. Perhaps you have the crimp where the gun is most reliable, therfore you have to do what you have to do. Have you calibrated your scale? Perhaps you are throwing a lighter load than you think. If an electronic scale, then it should have "known" weights in order to calibrate it. If a balance beam scale; I check it, and calibrate it as follows with a two step process: 1) -0- all weights and "balance" the scale. 2) I use a "known" weight and place it on the powder pan. I then move the adjustments until it balances. The adjustments indicated should "read" the weight of the "known" weight, i.e. a 115 gr bullet should balance the scale, when the "weight adjustments" are moved to indicate a weight of 115 gr. For a "known" weight I use a weight "closest" to the weight I am trying to duplicate. I think this is best, however it is hard to find known weights that light. Generally, I will use a quality 55 gr bullet ( lighter is better ) that I know is the correct weight. This could be a Sierra competition rifle bullet, or other "high quality" bullet that is very consistent in weight. Sierra 115 gr JHP's in .355 are very consisitent in weight to. I will use them as a quick check to make sure the scale is "calibrated" after an initial -0- weight balance adjustment. This 2-step process only takes a minute and it works as a check and balance to make sure. Make sure the scale is clean, and especially the balance beam. Also, make sure that no small piece of powder or other debris is in the area at the fulcrum part of the balance beam where it pivots. This could cause drag, and not permit the beam to "rock" properly to settle in. All the above is most critical with real light loads of say less than 4 - 5gr. When reloading, double check and be safe! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclez Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks for the input. The scales are Dillon electronic and I've calibrated with their supplied weight and a few different bullets. The crimp feels about right and I pulled a few bullets and didn't see any signs of indenture. I'm just gonna blame it on the conditions here (weather, temp., humidity, etc...) and do what everyone said and bump that puppy up a little. Thanks guys! Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Just another thought, 135-145 isn't a bad range for production. It sure take the steel down better than 125 and still is dang soft. You get a bit more distinction between shots too which (for me) hold my focus better than mouse fart loads, and you never have to worry about the chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well I was chronoing my 124 fmj precision and TG load. I found that my velocities were steadily going down chronoing them through my second gun. It had limited capacity and I only ha dbrought 2 mags with me. I was loading out of the ammo box which was baking in the sun. I retried in the first gun and was noticing reduced velocities with the heated up ammo. Just a data point to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) 147 Zero JHP 3.4 titegroup similar oal (might be a tad longer) and crimp to you stock g34 barrel with about 18K through it 139 PF at the Ohio Sectional last week. FPS came out 950 953 952 I found that MY G34 likes the hotter loads. Thanks for the input. The scales are Dillon electronic and I've calibrated with their supplied weight and a few different bullets. The crimp feels about right and I pulled a few bullets and didn't see any signs of indenture.I'm just gonna blame it on the conditions here (weather, temp., humidity, etc...) and do what everyone said and bump that puppy up a little. Thanks guys! Zack remember the sensitivity to air currents and other things. May be affecting the scale. Edited October 12, 2006 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I load 3.0 gr of TG with a 147 gr plated bullet. OAL is 1.135" makes a 128 pf. I have found jacketed bullets to be a little slower than plated and a lot slower than lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 In my testing for a .45 I had a 3-5 PF change between Winchester & Federal brass so my suggestion would be to sort your brass & use the higher PF or add a .1 to your powder charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 TG will show the 30+ fps swings no matter what you do from my experience until you get pressures up pretty darn high and use rifle primers.I typically get single digit SDs with my 9x19 TG load (4.2 grains, Fed 200, Zero 125 JHP at 1.14" OAL). I only use the 200s because I'm too lazy to buy more than one flavor of primers, otherwise I'd probably use the 100s. Mainspring on the ragged edge? Mine (CZ-75B and Beretta 92) are stock. That might explain the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 i run 3.5 grians of TG in my 9mm with a 147 JHP...dang soft and about 960 fps in my gun... that is my practice load for my duty gun(g34,9mm) harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 I use almost the exact same load, but I use an OAL of 1.130" instead of 1.150". Reeling it in to 1.130" will not hurt, 3.2gr is SO low that it isn't like you're gonna jump past max pressures or anything. (Max charge for 147gr is 3.6gr, you have some room to play.) 1.130" with the above combo nets me just over 900fps out of my G34. Oh yes, and I use Federal primers, which I think may even be slightly slower than the winchesters. CCI primers are hot, using those has bumped some loads as much as 30fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclez Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 Here's an update. Shot the same load (different day) out of my Trojan 9mm and here are the specs on it: 882.2 881.8 887.6 Avg - 883.9 881.4 886.0 879.3 Avg - 882.2 880.9 884.9 889.4 Avg - 885.0 889.2 879.4 874.5 Avg - 881.0 Avg PF 4 strings - 129.8 Bumped the TG up to 3.4. Shot out of the same Trojan on the same day. 922.4 926.1 919.8 Avg - 922.8 924.3 918.6 912.8 Avg - 918.6 917.9 905.7 922.5 Avg - 915.4 918.9 919.3 913.4 Avg - 917.2 Avg PF of 4 strings - 135.0 Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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