chad allred Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Is the M&P a ssp gun or a esp gun?Just curious I shot one and realy liked it this weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Last weekend a guy at the club I shoot at shot his in SSP. I think pulling the trigger loads the striker up a bit more before letoff (ala Glock) so that should allow it in SSP. Just my opinion. I didn't get to shoot it but I liked the feel and trigger in stock form. They supposedly slick up after 500 rounds or so too. I may consider one if time proves them reliable. Maybe the 5" version though. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I thought it was a DA gun, but after buying one and tearing it open it is clearly a single action. No cocking of anything going on. Pull trigger, trigger releases sear which releases a precocked striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Is the M&P a ssp gun or a esp gun?Just curiousI shot one and realy liked it this weekend! The gun can be used in both unless you modify it in a manner that makes it illegal for SSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Matt you see any place in there on it to slick it up some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Jake - I'm not Matt, but there's a discussion about this gun here and it looks like there are things you can do: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I thought it was a DA gun, but after buying one and tearing it open it is clearly a single action. No cocking of anything going on. Pull trigger, trigger releases sear which releases a precocked striker. Mmm. So mechanically it is closer to the XD than a Glock? Personally I think all striker fired guns should be considered single action. Apparently IDPA feels it's OK for SSP whereas the XD isn't. I was at the Berryville club and the M&P owner said his info was from HQ. More inconsistant rulings perhaps? However it winds up being classified, I like the feel of it. The one issue I thought they fell short on was the trigger stop. Once released, the trigger travels almost 1/8 inch before it hits the stop. The stop on the frame should have been taller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baa Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Having recently gotten a chance to closely inspect the M&P, I agree that it is very much like the XD in the way it operates. IDPA needs to grasp that striker fired guns besides the Glock are becoming more and more popular and are ulitmately the future of Standard Service Pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Mr. Mink, WIth all due respect the M&P's sear does cock the striker. Granted not as much as a glock, but certainly more then the XDs. If you look carefully at the sear it has an angle on the top of the engagement surface such as when it rotates down it does cam the striker back about 1/16 of an inch. I realize that 1/16 of an inch is really semantics, but apparently S&W convinced HQ that this was enough to keep it in SSP. Fourtyfiveshooter, Here is the link you need to "slick it up" http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=37138&hl= For a more info on the M&P there is now a M&P forum : M&P pitsol forum Enjoy, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 From the IDPA Nationals squad list it looks like Ernest Langdon and Julie Goloski of S&W are shooting in SSP and the word is they are both shooting the M&P. From that I would take that the M&P has been deemed SSP by IDPA headquarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Wouldnt the ATF classification of single action vs double action have a lot to do with what division it ends up in? My AC told me thats why the XD/HS-2000 ended up in ESP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Dan, The M&P cocks the striker LESS than a stock CZ cocks the hammer in SA mode. For the uninformed, CZ pistols come from the factory with hammer camming built in as a safety feature, and the sear angle cams the hammer back in SA mode when the trigger is pulled. And yet, CZ has never claimed their pistols are DA/DA. I can understand a gun company wanting their pistol to be a DA gun for the possibility of LEO sales, but come on, the M&P is not close to being DA. FWIW, Springfield tried that same argument with the XD and it didn't fly with the ATF. Mr. Mink,WIth all due respect the M&P's sear does cock the striker. Granted not as much as a glock, but certainly more then the XDs. If you look carefully at the sear it has an angle on the top of the engagement surface such as when it rotates down it does cam the striker back about 1/16 of an inch. I realize that 1/16 of an inch is really semantics, but apparently S&W convinced HQ that this was enough to keep it in SSP. Fourtyfiveshooter, Here is the link you need to "slick it up" http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=37138&hl= For a more info on the M&P there is now a M&P forum : M&P pitsol forum Enjoy, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 This is going to become a bigger and bigger problem for HQ if they don't change the way they classify what constitutes a SSP gun. As more and more manufacturers develop proprietary trigger systems the line between DA and SA is becoming blurred very quickly. The Glock vs XD was the first example of it and it is only going to get worse. I don't know what the answer is but for the XD to be excluded from SSP while Glock and the M&P are good to go is pitiful. I have owned both the Glock and the XD and there is no advantage to using the XD trigger over the Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Yeah, and what about the Taurus 24/7 Pro? That's a SA/DA gun.. or a restrike-SA gun, or an undecockable DA/SA... or something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Like I said before, I think all striker fired pistols should be classified as SA. Gots to have a hammer to even be considered for DA Yes, it means my Kahr P9 would be single action too. Big deal. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Like I said before, I think all striker fired pistols should be classified as SA. Gots to have a hammer to even be considered for DA What about a P99? It's striker-fired with a de-cocker. The first pull is brings the striker ALL the way back; travel of almost an inch at 12 lbs! That's DA, hammer or not. The P99 QA version is very Glock-like, and definitely moves the striker back a noticeable amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 You've answered your own question, first pull DA, SA pulls after that. A striker fired DA/SA. I believe the P99QA is DAO, each trigger pull cocks the striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 The striker on the QA is pre-set by cycling the action. Pulling the trigger moves the striker an additional quarter inch before releasing it, with a pull of about 8 lbs. It's like a Glock or what IDPA would call "safe action." With the P99QA, you can see the striker moving back while you pull the trigger. There is a hole in the back of the slide, and the end of the striker is painted red for use as a cocking indicator. Not really necessary on the QA model, but it's there for modularity. I know the regular P99 is DA for sure; I was just disputing lumping all striker fired pistols into SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I know the regular P99 is DA for sure; I was just disputing lumping all striker fired pistols into SA. I didn't say it was a perfect solution but it sure simplified classification and arguement over what is and what isn't. I already mentioned the Kahr was the same way. And from the way I shot mine at the last IDPA BUG match, I need to shoot it instead of my SIG in SSP or Para P18 in ESP. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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