EricW Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 OK, I know people have suggested webcams, but that's not really sufficient. What if there was a section of the USPSA Nationals website that was dedicated to video / news coverage of the National matches? Would it be possible for say...5 people to film the super squad, upload the video on to the server, interview shooters during the match....etc. i.e. actually provide relatively "live" news coverage of the match? Are the current crop of video cameras up to the task? What kind of bandwith would you need on site to upload the video? What kind of bandwith would the server have to support? Would USPSA give the people doing the coverage shoot-through passes so that they could at least get some trigger time while they were there? Since no else seems inclined to give us coverage, I guess it's up to us to do the job. Is this even feasible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 A very non-exhaustive search seems to point that internet access at the PASA range would probably have to be satellite or wireless from Barry if you have line of sight from the town to the range. (http://www.ocsbb.net/) dslreports came up dry for 62312 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I don't think it's feasible to tape the SuperSquad and shoot the match on another squad at the same time. The only way it could be done would be for the Squadding to assign a couple of 'normal' shooters to that squad. So they would shoot with the SS and then tape when not shooting. If that person had one of the Palm/ASS setups then they could track the scores of the SS and report that in the daily briefing. That person would also need a digital video camera (with iLink) , a laptop with some rudimentary video editing software and some good writing skills. You would need suitable band-width and this may be a problem down on the range. I would suggest that scores be posted to the Internet each hour on the hour during competition and then a match report filed at the end of the day from the hotel. Most hotels have broadband connectivity and so uploading movies and pictures and a written report should be fairly straight-forward. This is what Saul did at the last WS and it worked really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Brit, Instead of "normal" shooters I think just folks dedicated to the video project would be the way to go. If I was shooting the nationals, the last thing I would want is some major distraction like trying to do a quality job running a camera and a mic! Just a thought, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) I think it would be very difficult to video the match and shoot it... that's a lot of added pressure in an already stressful environment. I don't know what level of quality you're interested in, Eric... but in the interim, it really wouldn't be too difficult to provide nightly updates/coverage with my current video/computer/server set up and technical abilities (which isn't much). I don't know how far a 200GB/mo. bandwidth limit would go (and I'm not upgrading again! )... but I think it would be sufficient to supply highlights for the audience of this forum. I won't promise anything spectacular for O/P Nationals, but I'll see what I can do within my technological boundaries. Nightly updates/video will also depend upon high-speed access at the Crowne Plaza... ??? I don't really think this is a solution to what y'all are looking for... but maybe I can provide a bit more for O/P Nats than was provided for L/L10/R Nats, eh? Edited September 17, 2006 by Sharyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 You go girl !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 A few of us "high tech" types will be at the O/P... but... maybe we should all conspire to how much y'all whine about that lack of coverage, too.... I tried taking photos at the DTC for the Friday SS that I was shooting on... even *that* takes a lot of effort and gets in the way of the shooting... I can't imagine trying to video the SS, and then go shoot right afterwards, or trying to video and shoot on the same squad as them, either way... Just nutz... If I'm on a different rotation from the SS, I might get some stills up after the match, but lack of laptop prevents during match coverage, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkbrd Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I don't really think this is a solution to what y'all are looking for... but maybe I can provide a bit more for O/P Nats than was provided for L/L10/R Nats, eh? Sharyn; I for one would be happy to throw a small donation your way to make Open Nationals coverage happen??? If you get the bug start a topic?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 OK...if shooting through isn't an option...what if USPSA let the "news crew" shoot with the RO's...? The point being: the media isn't going to do it, so shooters will. I can't imagine a shooter going to Nats and *not* wanting a crack at the stages. There has to be a way to provide both real-time scoring and interesting match coverage in video / pictorial format. And if we can't get a land line net connection, what about wireless? Can we rent some ham radio operator's mobile antenna and put a 802.11 repeater on top? If the HTML pages were all pre-fabbed prior to the match, it would just be a matter of uploading content and enabling the appropriate pages as the match progressed. Furthermore, there would be so damned much traffic, it would be hard to believe that industry wouldn't sponsor such an endeavor. After all, the gun industry throws bread non stop at the Mc Bane fella and all he does is film people shooting metal prairie dogs with 10/22's. Hell, we can do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I tried taking photos at the DTC for the Friday SS that I was shooting on... even *that* takes a lot of effort and gets in the way of the shooting... I can't imagine trying to video the SS, and then go shoot right afterwards, or trying to video and shoot on the same squad as them, either way... Just nutz... I had some GREAT footage of top shooters from Area 3 but due to a corrupt DVD, I kept losing the data. This was SO frustrating to deal with while trying to shoot the match that I finally gave up and put the camera down because it was affecting my mental game. (also, I always have a back up DVD but loaned it to Athena... argh! ) If I'm on a different rotation from the SS, I might get some stills up after the match, but lack of laptop prevents during match coverage, so... Yeah, squadding will really determine coverage. But, Dave, I always work off a laptop so maybe we could figure something out. NO PROMISES THOUGH!!! The Open Nats is a big deal for me. If the coverage proves to be extraneous on my shooting, it will be eliminated. blkbrd, no donations needed, but thank you very much. The limiting factor is not financial, it is the potential burden on my personal performance. However, since I only shoot Open... you could start a fund to send me to next year's non-Open Nats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LChico Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I would suggest that scores be posted to the Internet each hour on the hour during competition and then a match report filed at the end of the day from the hotel. Most hotels have broadband connectivity and so uploading movies and pictures and a written report should be fairly straight-forward. Not sure that hourly isn't asking a lot from stats. I would like to see at least daily updates (on the same day ) and even twice daily (mid-day & end of day) does not seem too excessive. Linda Chico (L-2035) Columbia SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Not sure that hourly isn't asking a lot from stats. I would like to see at least daily updates (on the same day ) and even twice daily (mid-day & end of day) does not seem too excessive. Actually it's not that big of a deal. The results are entered throughout the day. The actual calculation of the current standings is the push of a button. Thanks to the USPSA Scoring system and Rob Boudrie's upload technique , it's another push of the button to upload those scores. My understanding is that it takes less than a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Shooting and taping and being competitive is a big loser. If you have a team of folks taping when it's not close to their turn, it sort of works. But,... half the RO's don't even shoot the RO match, so there's gotta be somebody that's willing to not-shoot and film. The big hassle is editing and converting the video-- that takes a lot of time and CPU horsepower to do right. And even if there was a live feed, people would complain about the lack of stats. Unless somebody can fix the stats problem, there's not much point trying to do real-time or even near-real-time. You can fake it with one SS, but as soon as somebody not on that squad puts down a stage win, everything is hosed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 If we were creating a DVD out of this footage then I would agree with you on the idea of good editing software etc. But if we are just trying to keep USPSA online members up to date with the goings on at Nationals then I think just a standard Quicktime conversion will work. That along with a write up and some good still shots should suffice. The creation of a match DVD is I think a separate issue. I agree with you on the scoring thing. That really does need a lot of attention. The Nationals is our premier shooting event and the organisation of these events is second to none, but it all falls apart in the promotion of the sport to the rest of us. We need day-by-day coverage and rapid posting of results, in this day of instant communication, we can do much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Even quick footage requires editing... There's less than 20 seconds of good video in every five minutes if you're taping shooters on a stage-- the rest is scoring, resetting, walkthroughs, taping, painting, etc, etc. Throw in multiple cameras and people walking / standing / cussing in front of the cameras and it gets worse. Even pausing recording during lulls takes tweaking at the end to get anything decent. It can be done, but it's not a 'couple guys and a webcam' kind of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LChico Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Not sure that hourly isn't asking a lot from stats. I would like to see at least daily updates (on the same day ) and even twice daily (mid-day & end of day) does not seem too excessive. Actually it's not that big of a deal. The results are entered throughout the day. The actual calculation of the current standings is the push of a button. Thanks to the USPSA Scoring system and Rob Boudrie's upload technique , it's another push of the button to upload those scores. My understanding is that it takes less than a minute. I have been chief statistician at a number of matches with 250 to 300 shooters (Area and Level III), and the calculations (that one push of a button) includes everything entered, whether it has been verified or not. Once a score is entered, it has to be verified. I'm not sure how the other stats people feel, but I would never post anything on the Internet that had not been verified. My priority is to post on the range so that shooters can check their scores. I don't have time at a major match to post hourly at the range, much less on the Internet. If there are any stats folks doing that, I'd love to know how they do it. Is there even a way to upload from the range? If the stats folks have to get back to a hotel in Quincy, that adds a bit of time. Linda Chico (L-2035) Columbia SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 You do need a good Internet connection. I don't believe that PASA has internet at the stats shack. If they don't then USPSA should demand it. We have spent enough money at PASA for them to provide us with at the very least a dial up connection. I agree that only verified scores should be uploaded. On a separate note: this is my 1000th post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Getting a landline installed for one match a year is not cost effective (unless, of course, there is already one in S&W hall). There are various cell/modem setups which would allow USPSA to do this without imposing such a burden on the facility. The real question is "How important is it to have near real-time web based results, as compared to later on in the day?. What price, both in terms of direct $$ cost and staff time (during some of the most critical moments of the match) should USPSA be willing to pay for this feature?" Once that question is answered, everything else is a minor implementation detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 Who said that USPSA should pay anything at all? There's numerous options from a modest increase in match fees to sponsor assistance to a volunteer effort. Personally, I think real time reporting in one form or another is a no-brainer from a marketing standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 The actual calculation of the current standings is the push of a button. Thanks to the USPSA Scoring system and Rob Boudrie's upload technique , it's another push of the button to upload those scores. True enough. And with my EVDO-capable smartphone and a decent cell signal, I can upload those results from just about anywhere (and have - the Area-1 results were posted several times a day this year). The question *I* have, though, is how meaningful are those results? We all know that interim results at the end of a day are sorta-interesting-but-not-compelling, because not everyone has shot the same stages. But at least you can usually tell who is doing well on the super squad (or whatever) Interim results at arbitrary points *during* the day would be, IMHO, even less meaningful, because there would not be any assurance that the whole super-squad had completed a given stage. I mean, if you upload every 30 minutes, you are likely to have the case where shooters X and Y have shot the stage, but Z (in the same squad) has not. $.02 B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 But what if the volunteer "reporter" got the results dump every hour and utilized their intellect, ability reason, and the opposable thumb to determine if the entire SS had shot a stage or not and decided to upload the results (or not)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 ZHunter on the mic and Sharyn with her video camera! There's the winning team for match coverage. Upload the video and VOILA!! Practical Shooting Sports News. Do we want photos to be available too, get Yamil in the mix. They would be busy because there's more than just one super-squad. It would've been great to watch the revolver super squad. Too bad Nils wasn't in that one. THE KID SHOT 92% of JM!! This is a great idea! It would be like getting home and watching the news! What do we have to do now to make it happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Saul Kirsch will be at the US Open Nationals and plans to put up a news report at the end of each like at the World Shoot. He will also be bringing the latest DVDs with him. The Multi-Gun Nationals and 3-Gun or something ?? From his newsletter:--> Oh – and one last word on the Open Nationals of next month: In response to popular request, I plan to do a real time, day to day match report at the end of each day – same as I did at the WS. Provided I can get on line and there are no expected problems. So look for that next month on the DAA website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpthole Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Just curious, are you guys talking about publishing the hit factor report or the stage results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysued Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I can post images like this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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