SV Magazine Springs

[BigDave]

Who prefers what and why???

[Nik Habicht]

Dave,

I've only got experience with Wolff springs, but I run those in everything I own and they work.  I recommend them happily.  However, I don't clip magazine springsv(yet, I'm sure) to try and get an extra round in.

[Kevin Kline]

Dave,

Currently I use ISMI springs (recoil, mainspring, magazine) and have very happy. I shoot approx 12,000 rounds a year and change mag springs and recoil springs once a year in May. I've had the same mainspring for several years. I've had great results w/ them. I'm sure the Wolff is stuff is great too or they wouldn't have been around for as long as they have.

Kevin

[PaulW]

I second Kevin on this.

I have been using ISMI springs for at leat 2 years with great results.  ESPECIALLY 170mm open mags.  I use their mags springs, recoil springs, main springs, and even their magazine release spring.  The only spring I totally trust, and I have tried many.

[Shooter Grrl]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but Grams Engineering is the ONLY place to buy magazine springs!

[Detlef]

dare to explain, Kath? Aren't they made by Wolff to Beven's length specs (which may be what you mean)?

--Detlef

[benos]

At risk, and at the place of our Woman of knowledge and power, I'd say yes. Beven does have his springs made by Wolfe to his specks, and they are a tad heavier wire diameter than the rest. (.002," I think) The only problem I've seen with the ISMI springs in the past, is that over millions of rounds of testing, they'd occasionally nose dive or bump feed a round, especially in the .40, because of all those super-heavy 40 bullets crammed in there. I've never heard that complaint in the supers. I've used bevens, or wolfe springs for ever with no problems whatsoever. This is especially true with SVI's new followers, after they've been tuned using my super-trick bending technique disclosed elsewhere on this very forum. I can' t remember exactly where it is right now, anyone? But I do know where it should be...

(I want the wire diameter to be .052 on a .40 spring.)

be

[Shooter Grrl]

I've told y'all about a gazillion times, I'm NOT technical :-)

But I believe, as Brian does, that he does have them made by someone.  I KNOW they are a "heavier" diameter than what Wolff sells to the public.  

But MOST importantly, I KNOW they work!  I went through "mag hell" for a year, finally sent them to Grams and I haven't had problems since.

[Flexmoney]

What does Beven charge to tune a mag...or six?

[Shooter Grrl]

Ummm - I can't remember, it's been over 2 years since I had mine done!

You're best bet is to contact him directly.  His website is at http://www.gramseng.com

[ErikW]

(Edited by Erik Warren at 4:40 pm on Oct. 31, 2002)

[DBChaffin]

Please see my thread concerning mag tuning in Limited/Stock Gun Questions.  Thanks

(Edited by DBChaffin at 2:18 pm on Nov. 21, 2002)

[TeamGE]

Hello everyone.

For the most part, this thread has progressed in an accruate and informative direction. I will confirm the information about my products at least.

My springs are of my own design and made to my specs by several spring manufacturers. Wolff is one of my biggest suppliers, but from time to time they do get behind, and I must go to others to fill my needs. I am very happy with workmanship and consistancy of the product I get from Wolff and they stand behind there products the same way I stand behind mine.

One of the most noticable differences in my spring is the diameter of the wire, (.052) which is the key to making sure the follower can be held in the right position and the spring rate is enough to push up all those heavy bullets. If one were to order a follower kit from me, or replacement springs for my follower, I hand tune each spring to hold the follower in the right position to load and stack the rounds correctly. If you want to use my spring on some other follower design, then you will get the standard coil shape that you can tune yourself.

With my follower, I use a 10.5 coil spring in a 140mm length mag and get 20 rounds of .40cal.. 38 super will get a 12.5 coil spring in an extended 140mm mag, or the 170mm mag, and round count will be 23 and 29 respectfully. These round counts are loadable and reliable if the mag tubes themselves are correctly sized and shaped internally. I will make a post to DBChiffin's thread on mag tuning, for this can turn into another long winded issue. If any one has question, please don't hesitate to call.

[Detlef]

welcome, Beven!

--Detlef

[benos]

Right on! We have the "tunemaster"!

Oh, and did I say .40 or .42 in my last post, sorry about that.

be

[TeamGE]

"Tunemaster" Wow! I am honored. Thanks, Brian. I see someone has changed my Avatar also, (cool, I like it). Someone called me a magsmith the other day. Maybe I should change my username? Anyways, back to work I go and hope to find many more interestings threads here in Brian's Forums!

PS. Hi Detlef, thanks.

[benos]

Beven,

I have the power - you can be whoever you want to be. MagMaster, TuneMaster, Magsmith, FeedMaster.... ?

be

[ErikW]

Do the Arredondo springs work with 170mm Sooper mags? They seem on the short and weak side for the big sticks.

[TDean]

Let's kick some more life into this important thread.

I'm burning some serious brain cells thinking about my Limited .40 set-up.

Here's my dilema.

I'm playing with two different followers and two different mag springs in un-tuned 140mm STI tubes with Bevin's 4mm basepads installed. The followers are Bevin's Max-C (skeletonized) and STI's stock. The springs are ISMI and Bevin's that came with his follower.

With the all Grams setup (max-c kit), I can get 20 in all mags with a reloadable 19.

The springs were getting a little weak so I bought what my gunsmith recomended, ISMI springs.

With Grams followers on the ISMI springs, the followers would protrude too far out the top of the tube.

This causes the breechface to jam against the follower after the last round.

After installing STI's stock follower on the ISMI springs, this problem went away, but now I get 19 in the mags with a reloadable 18.

Questions:

1)How often should we change the Grams springs?

2)Is anyone using Grams (skeletonized) followers and ISMI springs combination with good results.

I'm wondering about clipping the coils on the ISMI spring to prevent the follower from sticking too far out the tube.

Would the most logical decision be to just get all new Grams supplied springs for his follower design before Limited Nationals or any other major match (see question #1).

I'm also thinking about having one "trick" mag and the rest as "ol'faithfull".

Maybe get one tuned with all the skeletonized parts to hold a reloadable 20 and only use this mag when the stage dictates. I would then use the "more reliable" 18rd reloadable mags as the workhorses for most stages.

I'm rambling....

[Flexmoney]

Tom,

I don't have any insight on the mag tuning, but I do often run with one "trick" mag and leave the rest downloaded for reliability. Lately, I have even found myself starting a course with a ten rounder, then loading to a 20 round tube (I'll thumb a round out of the twenty rounder at LAMR, if I won't need the twenty).

[TDean]

After talking with Beven, I got a few of my questions answered.

He states his springs are good for 100 cycles in a tuned mag.

If your mags aren't properly dimensioned, the springs life may be shortened.

I probably have 2000rds through my gun. Divide that by 4 mags = 500rds per mag.

Divide that by 20rds = 25cycles per mag.

More realisticly, I probably used the #1 mag for 50% of those 2000 rds.

That would be 1000rds divided by 20rds. = 50 cycles.

With untuned mags it might be possible that the springs life is reduced by half.

I think the bottom line here is to gain every advantage available to me.

First, I will never shoot a "big match" without new mag springs.

Secondly, I should have my mags worked on to allow them to dispense ammo with as little drag as possible.

I'm still curious about other shooters' setups....

[Matthew_Mink]

When I shoot Limited (which isn't very often) I'll use my SV Infinity. I rebuilt my prebans a while back and this is what I used in the SV tubes:

Grams spring and follower kit

Dawson +1

I didn't tune anything beyond grinding off the little tab that trips the slide lock. I can load 19 in every mag with ease, make reloads with ease, and they are 100%. I have toyed around with tweaking them to hold 20, but they are running too good right now.

When these wear out, I'm going to use Grams stuff again, they just work to good.

[DBChaffin]

Ok, I'll throw in my $.02. I have SV tubes, Grams 4mm basepads on two fit by Beven, and Dawson +1's on the rest. I've been through a good many springs. My gun seems to like strong springs. Maybe there is an underlying problem, but until I find it I do know it runs better on strong springs. Incidentally, none of my tubes are tuned. Beven looked them over and said they were within spec. With the Grams Max-C springs and followers, I get 20 in all of the mags. The Dawson padded mags are VERY tight so I generally say 19 usable in them. I didn't get a lot of use out of them though, MAYBE 6 months before I started having problems. A couple of the followers wanted to jump the lips as described by TDean from the start. Beven told me you can bend the top coil over to the right (if looking at it from behind) and this helps for the Max-C setup. Doesn't help much for bigger springs in my experience. I tried Grams springs with an extra coil left on. Now, 3/4 of the followers want to jump the lips. I had a reloadable easy 19 in the Grams padded mags and a tight 19 (reloadable if you seat it reasonably hard, otherwise 18) in the Dawsons. They lasted longer this way, but not a whole lot longer, maybe 8-9 months. (Sorry, I don't have round counts). Lastly, I have been trying the ISMI springs with the Grams followers. Same results as far as jumping the lips. Same capacity. On the 2nd or 3rd month I guess with them now and all is well except for the jumping the lips problem. I'm not sure what I plan on doing, but I am going to work on SOMETHING. I can always go back to Max-C springs and change them regularly. I was shown a "trick" for making the SV competition followers fit on a regular spring. I may try them as I don't lose capacity with them and they don't pop out the top. I have never liked them before because they don't seem to stay on a spring well and can be a pain for cleaning mags. A couple of local guys really like the Arredondo .38 super followers in .40 (the blue or purple ones). I don't know the difference over the orange ones made for .40, but their mags work. Incidentally, in super mags the Gram's followers don't seem to have the popping out problem at all. Oh well, I guess that's all of my thoughts and experiences for the moment.

Oh yeah, I did try clipping an ISMI spring with the Gram's follower. Didn't work 100% in my gun, but again, it does seem to like strong mag springs.

[TeamGE]

TDean,

I did state that my springs should last for 100 cycles. I did not state that they wear out faster in an "untuned" mag tube. I told you that if your mag tubes are out of spec, there is more friction in the tube and it will require more spring pressure to feed the ammo up. What I see as a trend here, is alot of mag tubes need work, and the common fix is to put longer and stronger springs in the mag to help push the ammo up, but in turn, there there is so much preloaded spring pressure on the follower that it won't say in the mag, (pops out the top past the feed lips) and the round count goes down. DBChaffin is correct, if you are using my follower, make the follower lean to the right and it will have a better chance of stopping on the feed lip, but if you have too much spring pressure, it won't stop. How long a spring lasts is controlled by how many cycles you put on it, not by how long you use them. Every time you load and unload the mag, thats one cycle. You guys that unload your mags between stages are actually wearing out your springs faster. My springs are designed to give the right amount of pressure to get the job done, not put too much preload on the follower, and make the most room for round count. If you don't fix the tube, you will only be covering up the problem with an endless supply for premature spring replacements.

[TDean]

Beven told me you can bend the top coil over to the right (if looking at it from behind) and this helps for the Max-C setup

make the follower lean to the left and it will have a better chance of stopping on the feed lip

I'm sooo confused....

Which way should I angle the top of the follower?