If [insert Name Of Gm De Jour] Shot Action Pistol...

[Action Pistolero]

If they did that, and made it another division, and changed the rules to read, "no one can touch the barricade, only place anyone can go prone is the 50 yard line on the practical", I would expect more new shooters would come to the match. I know that will never happen, because it would piss off the 25-50 shooters in the world who have Bianchi Open guns, just for this match.

steve

Steve,

In 2004 we had what you mentioned with the exception of the not touching the Barricade. We shot standing everywhere except the 50 yard line. This is when the attendance started dropping off rapidly. Thanks to Doug and myself we were able to keep the Barricade as it is now.

I'll agree, Production needs to be a class by itself. But I wouldn't limit the barrel length. This started as a revolver game where 6" and 8 3/8" barrels were the norm. As bad as I hate min. trigger weights, I would suggest that Production have a min. trigger weight of 5.5 pounds. This falls in line with IPSC rules.

There are a lot more that 50 Bianchi Open guns out there. I could name more than 50 shooters that have them. I own 4 myself.

[GrantJ]

It is apparent in reading the above comments that a lot of you have absolutely no idea of what Action Pistol is all about. For those that get it they shoot the match, the others, well it is their loss. Changing the rules to suit other disciplines fails every time it is tried. The simple answer is that they are not interested, lets just leave it at that.

There is a simple reason why IPSC shooters are not interested in AP, they are not up to the challenge. There are a few exceptions, the ones that get it, and they excel. The average IPSC shooter sees action pistol as a bunch of standards exercises. When was the last time you heard anyone praise the match director for putting one of those in a match?

As for the cost of equipment, $1500 for a mover? You can build one for pennies on the dollar. Most clubs are run on a shoestring budget and rely on the abilities of a few to get things done. There is always someone with access to the equipment to build everything you require. As for the mover, the target carriers can be built for about $5.00 each, the components are available at your local hardware store. Any electric motor will work, I have seen movers made with generators out of old cars. Lets stop making excuses and get shooting! As for information on specifications, buy a rules book, everything you need is there.

And for those who think you are good enough, see you at the "Cup" in 07. To quote TGO, "I love a challenge"

GrantJ

[EricW]

For the sake of preserving your post for posterity:

It is apparent in reading the above comments that a lot of you have absolutely no idea of what Action Pistol is all about. For those that get it they shoot the match, the others, well it is their loss. Changing the rules to suit other disciplines fails every time it is tried. The simple answer is that they are not interested, lets just leave it at that.

There is a simple reason why IPSC shooters are not interested in AP, they are not up to the challenge. There are a few exceptions, the ones that get it, and they excel. The average IPSC shooter sees action pistol as a bunch of standards exercises. When was the last time you heard anyone praise the match director for putting one of those in a match?

As for the cost of equipment, $1500 for a mover? You can build one for pennies on the dollar. Most clubs are run on a shoestring budget and rely on the abilities of a few to get things done. There is always someone with access to the equipment to build everything you require. As for the mover, the target carriers can be built for about $5.00 each, the components are available at your local hardware store. Any electric motor will work, I have seen movers made with generators out of old cars. Lets stop making excuses and get shooting! As for information on specifications, buy a rules book, everything you need is there.

And for those who think you are good enough, see you at the "Cup" in 07. To quote TGO, "I love a challenge"

GrantJ

And you're right. I'm totally out to lunch on the price of a proper mover. MGM raised the price to a cool $3K: http://www.mgmtargets.com/running.htm

Oops!

But...I'm so happy you'll build one for me for pennies on the dollar. By my calculation that's 2 pennies for three thousand dollars....hmmm....carry the zero....please ship the mover to the address shown on my website and I'll get that sixty bones in the mail to you. And I'm such a great guy, I'll throw in an extra fiver too. That should be enough for you to put on the rheostat, encoder, and auto-reverse feature.

Oh...and thank you for your unvarnished, telepathic critique of my shooting skills and the gracious challenge to attend your fine match. That really means a lot to me.

Warmest Regards,

Eric

Edited June 1, 2006 by EricW

[AikiDale]

Let's play nice, you don't want to see Flex get angry. You wouldn't like him angry....

[/hulk quote]

[BigDave]

Pulley #1

Pulley #2

1/3 HP 1725 RPM Capacitor Start Motor

Dayton Drum Refersing Switch

250' Steel Cable

All of these items total $290.15. Add in another $200 for materials to build supports and guides for the motor/pulley run and another $250 for an electrician to wire it up and you are well under $1000. This is the same setup used at the practice range at GVRPC. You can run the mover on a single motor (you just have to switch targets at every distance which we do in Indiana every match). GVRPC and a 4 motor setup. I'm simplifying a bit, but I'll bet I'm not off by very much.

I agree with Grant. AP is an extremely difficult match. The kind of accuracy demanded by this match is something the majority of IPSC/USPSA shooters are not accustomed to. 96 of the 192 shots are executed at 20, 25, 35 and 50 yds. Most USPSA matches are lucky to have a total of 12 shots at any one of those distances. And, in USPSA terms, the whole thing is shot Virginia Count - no make ups!!! Each and every shot has to be perfect. Drop one plate? You're shooting for 2nd in Metallic. Drop an X? You may be shooting for 2nd in Open.

You can't argue with the success of Bianchi Cup champions. Just between Doug and Rob there are what? 7 World Shoot titles and an string of US championships that is just too long to type, not to mention Steel Challenge titles. Bruce has a healthy string of 3-gun titles. Do I even need to mention Jerry Miculek?

The bottom line is that Action Pistol will do nothing but help all of your other pistol shooting. I didn't say it, people like Bruce and Tony are saying it. I'm not suggesting that it is a match you need to run every month at your local club, but I'm sure there are a good many of you, if you'd give it a try, would be interested in making that a reality. But, maybe your club needs something to do that odd 5th Saturday or Sunday we have a few times a year? Break out your plate racks, call up Target Barn and order a case of D-1's and try something different. Hell, if your club runs ICORE, you already have the targets - you're one step closer. If you don't have a mover, don't worry about it. Get your numbers, get a few $$$ and then get one built.

I know all of the folks who are making the "for" argument here and I can assure you that all of them want the same thing - for those who aren't shooting AP today, to be shooting AP tomorrow on some level. If you respond to gentle coaxing, great. If you didn't realize before how accessible the match really was - fantastic. If you don't respond until you are called out publically (and in general) - fine, bring that Limited gun that shoots 1 1/2" off of the bench and put it and you to the test.

This match started (so I'm told, I'm too "young" to remember) as a "best of the best" match. It was to bring together everybody who was anybody in shooting and let them duke it out. Those days are over, for now. All any of us who still shoot (and I only started this 3 yrs ago) is to revive that with the pool of talent that exists today. I placed 105th out of 129. I should have been 205th out of 250.

[Kimberkid]

Grant~ Thanks for doing your part to encourage the future of AP, it is ohh so greatly appreciated.

IMO, which isnt worth much, a lot of people arent realizing how AP exactly works. Yes, you shoot the same "stages" every match, but that is not at all like shooting the same IPSC match over and over. Also, imagine every shot is an upper A shot.

The techniques for every single, tiny, minute movement is refined to a razors edge. In practical shooting you dont have to make sure every footstep is in exactly the same place, or that your grip is exactly the same every single shot, or that you might have to adjust your zero. In AP, the way you mount the gun to the barricade, how you lead the mover, where your 10, 25, and 50 yard zeros are, all matters a great deal and must be done with incredible consistency to achieve any real success.

One of the things I like most about AP is that it is NOT IPSC. I love to shoot IPSC, ICORE, Steel also, but I love them all because they are all different. Why cant we enjoy the diversity of all these awesome games we have. AP doesnt require great speed, but you cant waste time either.

If you just dont have the time to try it, thats fine, none of us have time to shoot everything we would like, but it also isnt fair to say it is boring and you hate it after hearing about it, or maybe shooting 1 match. Yea, its very possible to get burnt out on it, but its very possible to get burnt out on IPSC also.

Dave is a bit of an anomaly in himself. I was there when Dave shot his first match. It is interesting to see IPSC only shooters try AP for the first time. (just like IDPA'ers trying IPSC or Steel) In short, Dave sucked. You couldnt try harder than him, but he still sucked. He chose the far more difficult path for this quest. A lot of people would put up a shit score or 2, say the match sucked and was inferior to another discipline, and then convince themselves they dont have the time or resources. Dave chose to come back, and keep coming back until he was happy with the result. You think Dave is dropping the same number of points at IPSC matches that he did a few years ago? hell no!! He has won the battle of progression, and is now a much better shooter in every disipline he tries.

AP has a host of advantages available to all of us, dont overlook them just because they are different or repetitive. Whenever you make progress on one stage, you might backslide on another. Trying to do them all right, on the same day is the challenge.

[EricW]

Dave,

I'm not going to quibble with you guys that you can build a high-maintenance mover on the cheap. But, I've run movers before and I know what I'd want if I was going to do it as part of a match.

And if belittling people is how top AP shooters plan to recruit members, I would expect the current decline in attendance to continue. I may not be a contender, but there is at least one person who posted on this thread who doesn't shoot AP who very easily could be. It is astounding to me that anybody would kick sand in that person's face as some type of "incentive" to come play.

I'd be pretty embarassed to do that myself, but I guess I'm not an AP devotee, so I'm just not on board with the program.

Respectfully

E

[kimmbeckwith]

I really have missed all of my friends that I only see once a year and I can only say congratulation Bruce!!!!!!! I am sorry I wasn’t the to shake your hand!

I wish there was an easy solution to the problem with the Cup and the number of competitors. I have become so agitated with all the changes in the rules to try attract other disciplines. I did not boycott the Cup when the prone was taken away the first time and showed up and cleaned the plates! But, it seems that the open class is destine for extinction. I own two open guns which I have spent a few dollars on getting a light trigger pull, now only to spend more $ to put it back to 2 lbs. I know this seems petty, but I am not a gunsmith or due I care to become one. My Gilmore gun is great, but if any other gunsmith works on it Gilmore’s staff will refuse to work on it again. I know that is kind of small, but Riley has taken care of me and done a good job, so I show my loyalty to them. Plus, Tulsa is about 6 hours away.

To be honest, I don’t think there is a solution to bring the Cup back to 1980’s level. I wish I knew the answer, but to disgruntle old established Distinguished Action Pistol Shooters is not one of them. I hope to attend next year; maybe my mad will be over by then.

Kim

Zero Ammunition

[Genghis]

I love to shoot IPSC, ICORE, Steel also, but I love them all because they are all different. Why cant we enjoy the diversity of all these awesome games we have. AP doesnt require great speed, but you cant waste time either.

It's all good! USPSA, IDPA, shotgun, steel, airguns, long range rifle, .22, even Airsoft. I actually enjoyed NOT shooting yesterday - I shot the Airsoft gun with gas but no pellets loaded, working on trigger control.

It's easy to criticize the other guy's game. His game may be easier, but it's easier for the next guy too. That means you have to adapt to the game and take advantage of the easier parts.

[BigDave]

I love to shoot IPSC, ICORE, Steel also, but I love them all because they are all different. Why cant we enjoy the diversity of all these awesome games we have. AP doesnt require great speed, but you cant waste time either.

It's all good! USPSA, IDPA, shotgun, steel, airguns, long range rifle, .22, even Airsoft. I actually enjoyed NOT shooting yesterday - I shot the Airsoft gun with gas but no pellets loaded, working on trigger control.

It's easy to criticize the other guy's game. His game may be easier, but it's easier for the next guy too. That means you have to adapt to the game and take advantage of the easier parts.

+1

[Flexmoney]

Cons:

- Eric has a good point, you aren't going to win shooters over by telling them...basically...that they suck and aren't up to the challenge. That is just insulting.

- Shooters from other disciplines put a lot of time, effort and resources into their chosen game. To switch over to AP, they know that they would have to devote some (a lot) of that time, effort and resources to do well at the AP game.

- We have one AP club in the entire state of Ohio. In many places, I don't even think they have the one club.

- Building a mover is a problem. Even if it is cheap, nobody knows how to do it...nor, wants to fight the battle with their club while they figure it all out.

- 50y pistol bays are a problem.

- NRA management of the sport.

Pros:

- There are a dozen or so AP stages...which include some that are amazingly easy to set up and run.

- If you have a barricade or two and a few targets stands...you can run AP stages

- If your club has a plate rack...that is a stage all by itself. Awesome.

- The accuracy requirements WILL help your other shooting. Even if you are shooting a crappy Glock or 1911.

I don't know how many times, after running a shooter at the local AP match, we have gone down range to get their target...and, I have been able to say to them, "look here, you fired 24 rounds at this target, not one of them is in the upper half of the target...not 1 out of 24". Feedback like that, you won't see in USPSA matches, or even in practice. (You ought to see the nice tight groups on the right side barricade target, then see the shotgun group on the left side barricade target.)

- Trigger control, nuff said

- Mental game, nuff said

I am sure there are more...I ran out of typing time

[Allgoodhits]

www.brianenos.com

Forums

Brians Forums...>Shooting Sports>"Other" Shooting Sports Discussions>NRA Bianchi Cup

Ok, so I'm confused. Do some of us end up on NRA Bianchi Cup thread by accident, or do they go through the motions to click/choose or whatever to get here?

Yet there are always those who have never shot NRA AP, and have nothing good to say about it. May I ask then why, if they have no experience about the game, have no desire to participate in it are they even on this small section of Brian's Forum?

Just curious.

MJ

Classified NRA AP, and formerly NRA PPC, NRA Conventional Pistol, IDPA, USPSA.

[Flexmoney]

Allgoodhits,

If you go a bit further down the clickable path you will see this thread title:

If [insert Name Of Gm De Jour] Shot Action Pistol..., ...would you?

Where input and discussion was asked for.

[Come on folks, lighten up some...if we can't have a polite discussion, then we can't have a discussion...and, I don't want to have to play the heavy on this thread.]

[EricW]

I'm not shooting AP matches because:

1) They are not available to me locally

2) They are not available to me locally

I plan on doing something about that. It will probably come in the form of an outlaw match that I'm cooking up. I really enjoy the change of tempo in shooting a very accuracy-driven match and I think others here will too.

[XRe]

And if belittling people is how top AP shooters plan to recruit members, I would expect the current decline in attendance to continue.

- Eric has a good point, you aren't going to win shooters over by telling them...basically...that they suck and aren't up to the challenge. That is just insulting.

+1.... It's a big turnoff for me... I certainly haven't read anything that says "Gee, let me run right out and play that game with those folks...." (Kimberkid's post notwithstanding....)

I have no doubt that it takes a lot of skill to do well at Bianchi. I have no doubt that training for it would help make me a more accurate shooter. I also have no doubt that I can become a more accurate shooter through appropriate practice outside of the Bianchi context and that I don't need Bianchi to get better at shooting accurately. To imply otherwise is, well, assinine.... Also, assuming that IPSC/USPSA shooters - at least, the better ones - aren't practicing accuracy shooting is sort of naive, don't you think? I think you'll find quite a few very good shots in the GM/M ranks...

Yet there are always those who have never shot NRA AP, and have nothing good to say about it. May I ask then why, if they have no experience about the game, have no desire to participate in it are they even on this small section of Brian's Forum?

There are those (like me) who read the forums using the "Today's Active Topics" link at the bottom of the front page - this shows topics from basically any forum but the restricted ones, including the AP forum. Anything that looks interesting gets read... this thread was basically asking openly for input, so it got it...

Edited June 2, 2006 by XRe

[BigDave]

Let's clear one thing up before we move on:

Grant's words

There is a simple reason why IPSC shooters are not interested in AP, they are not up to the challenge.

Flex's words

you aren't going to win shooters over by telling them...basically...that they suck and aren't up to the challenge

Excuse me, but who exactly said "they suck"? And, I remembered this so I decided to go find it and dig it up. Now, if you don't like what Grant said, they'd you should hate this guy:

I don't care how good you are or what your score is. But just that you have the balls to try it - because it's hard. If you actually make the effort to try this drill, and try it long enough to improve, then I'll talk to you. If not, then I don't care.

The drill is simply the Bianchi Plates, as shot at the Bianchi Cup with a Stock gun. If you don't know what that is, then you'll have to figure it out. (I have to go to the range to practice - I'm leaving for a trip tonight.)

If you can shoot the plates with less than 8 misses - you are a stud. If not, you better go practice.

Anyone want to guess who posted that?

Perhaps it is a bit harsh. Perhaps a bit abrasive? Is it inaccurate? Maybe not. Are we adults here, or what?

[John Dunn]

TGO....what do I win?

I'd shoot AP if there was a match anywhere close, but there's not.

[XRe]

Excuse me, but who exactly said "they suck"?

You, for starters. If you can do it, go back and read your posts objectively. To someone looking from the outside of AP, who's already an IPSC shooter, your words, and Grants come across as very haughty. People have been trying to tell you that all along, some gently, and some not so gently. You just don't get it. The way you're approaching this whole thing is turning many of us off to the very thing you want us to do. You may not intend it that way, but you certainly haven't communicated what you intend, whether you think so or not...

[BigDave]

TGO....what do I win?

I'd shoot AP if there was a match anywhere close, but there's not.

A beer.

Ok. I know you shoot USPSA - is the only USPSA shooting you do in matches? Do you practice at all?

[ong45]

You guys are all slow moving pansies if you don't shoot steel challenge

[BigDave]

Ok, for those who agree with Dave (and apparently there are more than a few of you) that Grant, myself and others like us on this side of the fence have been "haughty", etc. I'll be the first offer an apology. All I ever intended to do was wave this flag we call AP as far, wide and fast as I can. That's it.

Maybe I am wrong? Maybe this isn't worth it? Maybe all of you are right and I'm wrong?

Who want to buy a 6" 38 Super?

[ima45dv8]

Ok, for those who agree with Dave (and apparently there are more than a few of you) that Grant, myself and others like us on this side of the fence have been "haughty", etc. I'll be the first offer an apology. All I ever intended to do was wave this flag we call AP as far, wide and fast as I can. That's it.

Maybe I am wrong? Maybe this isn't worth it? Maybe all of you are right and I'm wrong?

Who want to buy a 6" 38 Super?

No Dave, you're not wrong for making the effort. Your passion is commendable. I think the point that XRe was trying to make is that it's easier to catch flys with honey than vinegar.

Best of luck with your matches. If there were any locally I'd likely give it a whirl.

[XRe]

think the point that XRe was trying to make is that it's easier to catch flys with honey than vinegar.

That's exactly my point - thanks, Mark!!

Spoke w/ Dave and Mike offline - I think part of my reaction was me misreading BigDave's stuff as having in implied tone, and part of it was, well, Grant. Berating people flat out is a sure fire way to insure that you're going to be shooting by yourself. Dave agreeing with him flat out ("I agree with Grant") associates their two points in my head - which isn't exactly fair to Dave, but without clarification on Dave's part as to what exactly he agrees with Grant on, is certainly understandable.

So, I'll rephrase my position a bit. Grant has totally turned me off to AP. How's that?

[Allgoodhits]

Of all the shooting sports, I like shooting 10's the best....or -0 or A's.

All shooting sports bring something to be learned either to or from the range. My observations, and they may well differ from yours are as follows, and yes I have participated in all:

Bullseye or similar single position precision shooting really teaches you how critical trigger control is. Bullseye always is a terrific teacher of mastering concentration and focus to deliver the near perfect shot applying most all fundamentals with near perfection. Ten ring approximately 3" round. Fired at 25 and 50 yds. BE, trigger, concentration and only shooting skills. No holster draw, take whatever time you need to acquire grip. BE, not a lot of fun but very challenging. I must say shooting at 50yds with one hand at an X ring which is a bit over an inch, does bring a smile to your face when you spot it in the scope! Now try doing it again. You win at the 50yd line, often lose at the 25 yd line.

PPC like Bullseye brings many of the same elements, but also includes learning to deal with other positions (kneeling, sitting, prone, left-right barricade). Defining an aiming area may be a bit more complex or difficult than BE, but head/neck hold at 25 and 50 yds solves much of that problem. Ten ring approximately 6" X 4 " fired at 7, 15, 25 and 50 yds. PPC, trigger, concentration with some dexterity to positions, proper aiming are, switching hands etc. and shooting skills. Holster used, but speed relatively unimportant. Time to acquire grip is generally not an issue. PPC, more fun than BE, but not real fun, but challenging. Like BE, you win at the 50 yd line and often lose at the 25 or 15 yd line.

NRA Action Pistol like BE and PPC does require a high degree of precision. Precision not as precise (relative to ten ring size) as PPC and BE, but quite precise considering the time limits, multiple targets, type of targets, distances and positions. For me the most difficult part of NRA AP is that you have little or no opportunity to recover from a bad shot or shots. The pressure that every shot has to be good, really plays havoc on your mental game. This, I believe, is what Leatham, Koenig, Piatt and many others are refering to when they say that shooting Bianchi Cup will make you a better shooter. Perhaps a more appropriate choice of words may be better competitor. They are likely referring to the mental aspect of the game and not the mechanics of shooting. In my opinion one learns to shoot in or at practice, but only learns to compete at matches. There is a big difference. Some brief examples. I have seen Mickey Fowler shoot a 1918, the eight at 15 yds. I have seen Carl Bernosky shoot 1910, missed at plate at 10 yds. Don Golembieski has shot very high 170 and 180+ X counts yet an 8 or worse somewhere along the path. These are examples of mental errors, not lacking skill. ( For my 2006 BC experience I shot 476 practical two 8's weak hand; 478 barricade, 476 mover and then missed a plate. a 1900 which easily shoulda, coulda, woulda been a 1918 since clearly I should have not shot 2-8's at 10yds on the practical, I should not have shot an 8 at 15 yds on the mover, I shot an 8 on the barricade hanging on to a concrete re-enforced barricade, then on the last day at 830AM I could have still managed a 1910 but I missed a plate! NRA AP is huge mind game. The person who wins BIANCHI may not be the best shooter, but I guarranty you they are an extremely tough mental competitor, or very very lucky. Ten ring 8" diameter fired at 10, 15 20 25 35 & 50 yds. NRA AP, trigger control, aiming area, ability to maintain mental composure when time is very limited. Also diversity in handedness, positions. Holster use, speed of draw and proper grip immortant due to par time and necessity for near perfection.

NRA AP, fun compared to BE and PPC, certainly not perceived by most as fun/exciting as IDPA/USPSA. You can lose anywhere!

IDPA same size "ten ring" -0 being 8" diameter as NRA AP. Most shooting less than 15 yds, some shooting to 20-25yds rarely past that. Certainly accuracy is important, but an increase in speed of shooting, reloading, moving etc may make up for lesser shooting skills. Gun handling other than actually shooting may elevate a performance significantly. Taking a reload down to 1.5' or less can make up for a few -1 or -3 shots, especially if the matche requires numerous reloads. Athletics may also play a huge roll in elevating (reducing time) one's score. To me IDPA is more realtime than BE, PPC and to a degree NRA AP. One must pay attention, to the entire surroundings as to shoots, no shoots, malfunctions and other surprise variables. One has to be totally aware of all things, and NOT, concentrate on one thing, as you must stay alert and fluid. I think this is different than concentration to deliver a shot. Perhaps you need to move in and out of this conscientiousness thought process depending on what you are faced with. -0 (ten ring) 8" diameter fired mostly at less than 20 yds. IDPA, trigger, grip, mobility, thinking, other gun handling skills such as draw, reloading, moving, positions and strategy. Poor shots early in a tournament may be able to be overcome later. The shooter may experience what I call a fundamnetal priorty shift during a shot or string of shots. By this a moderately distant shot which would require, perfect breathing, trigger control, grip, sign alignment may turn into a shot or string where, just getting the shots off becomes the most important thing due to some type of unexpected problem. Note that this can occur in all events which do not have alibi's.

USPSA has a huge value on speed. Speed in drawing, moving, reloading, getting into and out of positions and strategy. Accuracy takes a bit of back seat, but one still must hit. A fast performance may make up for a poor performance. Faster performance later in tournament may elevate one's position. (In NRA AP if your first shot is a 5 or miss you likely can not win, no matter what else you do) USPSA like IDPA but to higher degree speed, speed, speed is paramount. Speed in doing everything after the beep. Athletics plays a huge roll in this game, along with shooting. Repeat of many of the IDPA as to real time problem solving of targets, loading, strategy and the like. A zone approximately 6 X 11". You gotta have speed and terrific gun handling skills, shooting ability not as critical, but certainly you must hit.

I know this was a bit long winded, but to me it lays out the differences and similarities as I see and experience them. There are a few people out there who are world class at some of these. You don't see too many world class BE shooters, shooting anything else except BE. Phil Hemphill of MHP shoots PPC and BE and has shot 1920 at Bianchi, but don't think he plays with IDPA or USPSA. John Pride is a terrific PPC and NRA AP shooter. If he wanted to I am sure he would be a world class IDPA shooter, likely not USPSA. Mickey Fowler once a dominant action shooter from the late 70's and 80's probably could compete on any playing field if he chose. Doug Kounig , Bruce Piatt, Michael Voight, Tony Holmes, Rob Leatham, Brian Enos and others, well those guys can shoot anything that shoots. If they wanted to, they could hold their own in BE or PPC very quickly. Todd Jarret came to BC once, and I think he thought it would be a walk in the park. He shot a very good score of around 1908+/- certainly not what he thought it would be.

The bottom line is that we all shoot what we like for whatever our reasons. Mostly we shoot what is available to us, or that which we are good at. Some of us chase a desire to prove something to ourselves or others. Whatever floats your boat....happing sailing!

MJ

[XRe]

Whatever floats your boat....happing sailing!

+1 to that

BTW - you are correct in that USPSA competitions tend to not have a high focus on shooting skills, but it doesn't have to be that way. I think it's a mistake to not work on shooting fundamentals shooting this game, though it's easy to think you cannot. It will come back to haunt you as you progress, and can definitely be a deciding factor at a big match.

Also - it strikes me that the reason you can make up ground following a mistake in IPSC/USPSA is that there isn't a high end "perfect score". In other words, in BC, if you make a mistake, there's nowhere else to make up for it, because your maximum score from that point onward is limited solely by the number of targets available - and the level of competition is such that everyone else would have to make one or more similar mistakes to put you back in the match, which just isn't going to happen. Some of the same pressure is there in IPSC/USPSA, in that a mistake on any stage can end the match for you - but there's a chance that the competition will make a mistake, or that you can dial it up significantly in an appropriate spot and pick up some points on the field. That definitely puts a lot of pressure on the shooter in BC, because any mistake is final. It changes the mental game in USPSA/IPSC some because it introduces a risk/reward element to the approach that BC doesn't have (it's all risk, no reward, essentially) - that's not necessarily better or worse, just different. Make no mistake - IPSC/USPSA at the top level can be very taxing on your mind game, but it works different "muscles", if you will....