The Previous Thread On Berry's Bullets Struck A Nerve (updated 2x

[Kyreb]

Firearm: Para P-16 with a Scheumann bull barrel. Trying out some Berry 180 grain RN in hope of curing a feeding problem. ( The RN did not but Ed Vandenberg did after his 50K round tune up)

After two horrible matches and a really disappointing practice session yesterday, I got back to basics. Pulled out the sandbags and from a bench at 50 feet found out my pistol was shooting 10 shot groups of 12 to 15 inches apart( best of 6 groups) . I am talking shotgun patterns here.

My Chrony listed these rounds at an average of 1045 FPS. ( Warm, but I do not really trust my Chrony. That is another story)

I ran to the local Wal-Mart , grabbed a box of Winchester 180gr TC "White box" and returned to the range. The first group was into one ragged hole of about 1 1/2 inches. So the gun and hopefully not the guy behind it do not seem at fault.

I did not change the crimp from where I had my 550 set up for Zero 180s. It that the culprit? Too tight?

Update 4/17: With as light a crimp as I could get through the case gauge....The 180 RN tighted up some..down to roughly 4-6" groups through my Para and 1 1/2 " or so through my 610. Another batch of Berry 180 flat points shot well enough in my Para for practice anmmo but not what I would want to use in a match. These grouped around 2" or so. I

I placed an order with Agnus Friday..going back to Zero from here on out.

Update 4/19: Berry is taking back the 2000 I had that were still sealed in the box. I am swapping them for .45 200 gr SWCs. My trustly Springfield does well with those bullets.

I just had to pay freight both ways.

Edited April 19, 2006 by Kyreb

[warpspeed]

I have never been able to get any accuracy at all from any of the plated bullets. Very similar results to teh one you got. Try Zero, Montana Gold or Armscor.

[L9X25]

Kyreb,

I have heard, and experienced, your story again and again. This not a comment on Berry's specifically, just plated bullets in general.

They generally have to be sized like lead bullets (.001) larger than the bore size to have a chance and the crimp cannot deform the projectile or you will have a shotgun pattern. I have heard of many people that have worked out the problems, but I am not one of them. I gave up the fight and went to real jacketed bullets and the problems all disappeared, as yours did.

The problems are just not worth the savings.

Leo

Edited April 11, 2006 by L9X25

[mcb]

I am shooting Berry's 180 RN in my S&W 610. They are the only Round Nose 40s I have been able to find. As I was working up my load for Major using N320 I notice that if you get much above Major, 917fps, the accuracy really drops off. My Minor loads using Berry's do great in my 610. The groups open up a little as I aproached Major and as I approach 1000fps I started getting buckshot like groups. I had tested some N340 loads and this powder did seem to shoot slightly better groups at Major PF. I will be switching back to N340 when I shoot up the rest of this N320.

mcb

[Bigbadaboom]

Plated bullets require a very light crimp, just enough to take the belling back out.

[Kyreb]

I am shooting Berry's 180 RN in my S&W 610. They are the only Round Nose 40s I have been able to find. As I was working up my load for Major using N320 I notice that if you get much above Major, 917fps, the accuracy really drops off. My Minor loads using Berry's do great in my 610. The groups open up a little as I aproached Major and as I approach 1000fps I started getting buckshot like groups. I had tested some N340 loads and this powder did seem to shoot slightly better groups at Major PF. I will be switching back to N340 when I shoot up the rest of this N320.

mcb

That is good to know. I have a 4" bbl 610 in the safe. At least I have something that may shoot these things.

[EricW]

Berrys are the most accurate bullet I've shot out of my pistol. But...I have an old barrel that's got some miles on it.

The other thing that I did to my barrel was really work some JB and Iosso paste through it. I never clean the bore and 20K later it still shines like a dime.

Sounds like for whatever reason, the plated jacket is separating. I'd pull a couple bullets and see if you're crimping the case into the bullet. The other issue with plated bullets is that the plating will severely peel if your cases have the mouths peened over. This is very common with brass that was tumbled in a rotary tumbler or cement mixer.

FWIW, I've been shooting 200's, but I should have 180's coming in by Friday or Monday. Some guys in my club and I bought the double struck bullets because they were maybe .50 more per thou.

I'll post my results.

Edited April 11, 2006 by EricW

[dirtypool40]

Berry's shoot just as well out of my AET as zeros, and at $15/k savings.

Check your crimp.

[raz-0]

well can't speak to berry's, but I used rainier. 230gr .45. I had to tweak both belling and crimp to make them happy. I was able to get decent accuracy out of them. Light belling, light crimp. Nothing that will cause the plating to crack, or the ammo will be useless beyond about 10 yards for anything other than plinking.

[AlamoShooter]

I got the same thing years back 2" group to 24" it is all in the crimp.

The Berry is a good bullet I shot it for years on 35 yard 4" targets in 40 cal.

Now I like the range that the Zero has over the plated bullets.

[Cuz]

That is good to know. I have a 4" bbl 610 in the safe. At least I have something that may shoot these things.

Any chance you want to sell that 610???

-Cuz.

[Kyreb]

That is good to know. I have a 4" bbl 610 in the safe. At least I have something that may shoot these things.

Any chance you want to sell that 610???

-Cuz.

Nope. Got it tuned and running just right. Rick

[EricW]

Just got 30K of 180gr FP's in Thursday. Two range sessions so far.

Impressions:

- At approx. 1000fps, they are as accurate as anything else I've put through my gun.

- I did have a couple feed issues compared to the 200 gr. I shortened the OAL to 1.175 and now everything seems to be going along just fine. Just dumped 3 mags with no issues.

- The bullets all mic out to .4012" to .4018". Measured quite a few and didn't find any sub .401" bullets, which is a pleasant change from other manufacturers.

Wish I would have ordered another 10K for myself now. 20K goes to other club members. Guess I can order another 20K when I run out.

I started out with 180 gr over 4.65 grs of U. Clays at 1.20" OAL. That proved to be a VERY stiff load and I wasn't too thrilled with the accuracy. But, I was having a very off day for various reasons, including 20+mph gusts knocking the target all over the place.

Anyway, at 1.175 OAL with 4.3 grs of U Clays, everything settled in quite nicely. The ES of PF's was 167 to 175 IIRC. Recoil was very manageable as well. I'm very happy with the results...and the price. I can hardly buy bare lead for what I got the Berrys for.

[Kyreb]

Just got 30K of 180gr FP's in Thursday. Two range sessions so far.

Impressions:

- At approx. 1000fps, they are as accurate as anything else I've put through my gun.

- I did have a couple feed issues compared to the 200 gr. I shortened the OAL to 1.175 and now everything seems to be going along just fine. Just dumped 3 mags with no issues.

- The bullets all mic out to .4012" to .4018". Measured quite a few and didn't find any sub .401" bullets, which is a pleasant change from other manufacturers.

Wish I would have ordered another 10K for myself now. 20K goes to other club members. Guess I can order another 20K when I run out.

I started out with 180 gr over 4.65 grs of U. Clays at 1.20" OAL. That proved to be a VERY stiff load and I wasn't too thrilled with the accuracy. But, I was having a very off day for various reasons, including 20+mph gusts knocking the target all over the place.

Anyway, at 1.175 OAL with 4.3 grs of U Clays, everything settled in quite nicely. The ES of PF's was 167 to 175 IIRC. Recoil was very manageable as well. I'm very happy with the results...and the price. I can hardly buy bare lead for what I got the Berrys for.

I had better luck with the flat points than I did the round nose. The round nose shot OK in my 610 but not my Para. What pistol are you shooting ?

[EricW]

What pistol are you shooting ?

Benny Hill STI with STI bull barrel. Barrel is hitting approx. 35K mark.

Accuracy has a heck of a lot to do with matching the bullet to the bore dia. My gun has always shot much better with .401" to .402" lead bullets. The .4012" to .4018" Berry's are just perfect.

Keeping the velocity down and crimping only enough to remove the bell are big helps as well.

[AlamoShooter]

Just got 30K of 180gr FP's in Thursday. Two range sessions so far.

Impressions:

I had better luck with the flat points than I did the round nose. The round nose shot OK in my 610 but not my Para. What pistol are you shooting ?

It has ben afew years for my 610 But.. if the brass had ben shot in my Auto for more than two or three times I could not get a good group with it in my 610. I went to keeping the brass seperate, as the Auto semed to 'harden' the brass.

But I may not know nothing at all.

JF

[straightshooter1]

Shot a lot of Berry's plated bullets and it is certainly correct that a light crimp is needed on all plated bullets. I find that a light crimp is almost always best-enough to take out any flare, and keep the bullet from moving forward or being pressed deeper into the casing by recoil or from being dropped, etc.

Am surprised at the inaccuracy noted by some with Berry's plated bullets. Always found them to be very well made, very accurate. Would lean towards some problem with that particular batch given my (and many others) positive experience with that brand.

Bob

[Harmon]

i just bought 2k 9mm 124 grain double struck round nose bullets for plinking in the 9mm. well plinking in the Major 9mm.

7.6 grains HS6, Fed 200 primer, winchester brass and berrys 124 DSRN bullet go into a little over 2 inches at 25 yards. 50 yard head shots are still possible with this bullet/load

BTW it chronos at 1365 fps so i believe the 1000 fps max that some folks claim is crap. i will also note that i used NO crimp, the belled case mouth had just been turned back around.

for almost all pistol shooting, i have no issues with berrys bullets.

[Cuz]

i just bought 2k 9mm 124 grain double struck round nose bullets for plinking in the 9mm. well plinking in the Major 9mm.

7.6 grains HS6, Fed 200 primer, winchester brass and berrys 124 DSRN bullet go into a little over 2 inches at 25 yards. 50 yard head shots are still possible with this bullet/load

BTW it chronos at 1365 fps so i believe the 1000 fps max that some folks claim is crap. i will also note that i used NO crimp, the belled case mouth had just been turned back around.

for almost all pistol shooting, i have no issues with berrys bullets.

That's what I like to hear. I just bought 9,000 of them in 40 and 45. Looking forward to shooting them and saving a few bucks at the same time.

-Cuz.