Attila Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 A few months ago, our local club had a stage that had a barrel that was to be shot through. The RO for this stage stated that the targets T4-T6 had to be engaged through the barrel. There were no walls or cover that physically prevented you from shooting targets by shooting over/around the barrel. You could have stood there and engaged all three by shooting over it,the position of the barrel required most people to squat or kneel to shoot through it. At the time, I thought it was an illegal stage and was tempted to shoot over it, and then protest if any penalty points were assigned. However seeing all the shooters shoot through it and the fact that it was a small local match, I didn't want to make a scene over it. I shot the stage as described and after everyone had run through it, I addressed the RO about it. He agreed that according to the rules, he should have placed a wall or cover that prevented you from shooting it any way other than what he intended, but due to lack of resources, that could not be done. How would you have handled it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I would have engaged the specified targets through the barrel. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 The Level I exception granted under US1.1.5.1 would permit the stage designer to specify that the targets be engaged through the barrel. The exception isn't as wide-sweeping as some folks think/hope it is, but this would certainly be allowed. US1.1.5.1 -- Level I matches are not required to comply strictly with the freestyle requirements or round count limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) Clear safety issues aside... (change to read: "Provided there are no safety issues presented by the COF") Quibbling over such matters at Level I matches is really poor form IMO. You're not going to win a Cadillac, so smile and go with the flow. Edited April 20, 2006 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 The Level I exception granted under US1.1.5.1 would permit the stage designer to specify that the targets be engaged through the barrel. The exception isn't as wide-sweeping as some folks think/hope it is, but this would certainly be allowed.US1.1.5.1 -- Level I matches are not required to comply strictly with the freestyle requirements or round count limitations. I am glad you posted that. I had looked in the rulebook but I guess I missed that part. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Being a local match I would of ask about it ahead of time. Most likely he would of stated that because of lack of resourses the stage was setup like this and agreed with me then I would of shot the stage like everyone else, through the barrel. If I would have not ask ahead of time I would of shot through the barrel because I need the practice at it, I think I have shot through 6 or 7 barrels totals. I don't get to see them very often. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Clear safety issues aside...Quibbling over such matters at Level I matches is really poor form IMO. You're not going to win a Cadillac, so smile and go with the flow. THAT is the main reason I shot it as described. The one thing that kept nagging me to shoot otherwise is something that happened a month earlier though. On a really windy day, poppers had been set heavy. Several shooters had center mass hits and they did not go down on the first hit, but no-one protested. I had FIVE hits on one with a .38super and it did not go down til the sixth hit. I finished the stage and then voiced my displeasure with the calibration. The club president/match director stood fast after much debate that I could not get a calibration and reshoot because I had finished the stage. And technically he was correct. Without asking, several experianced shooters told him what had happened and told they thought it should be recalibrated. only then did he concede. It was then they found a nut had backed off on the popper causing it to lose calibration. Because of the MDs initial stance on this, I thought about trying to challange things, but I didnt want to make a scene and ruin things for other shooters. Now I am glad I didnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I finished the stage and then voiced my displeasure with the calibration. The club president/match director stood fast after much debate that I could not get a calibration and reshoot because I had finished the stage. That's bad form too. Getting excessively worked up over the rules at Level I matches makes for a trying day for everybody. If someone shoots a popper 3X and it doesn't fall, say "stop," reset and reshoot. I don't give a crap what the book says. Be practical and keep it a fun match. Save the overlays and powdered wigs for bigger matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Save the overlays and powdered wigs for bigger matches. Quit That! I very nearly spewed Mountain Dew all over the keyboard picturing Troy in a powdered wig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Save the overlays and powdered wigs for bigger matches. I have seen more overlays at our local matches than any big matches, 10x's as many. Some guys even have them in their back pockets The only way I would ever even ask for a second look was if it was a point blank range but thats just me. I even had a elongated hole on a target that should of been 2 alpha instead of alpha mike but I didn't even care to argue it. Don't want a give me, I want to earn it. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Save the overlays and powdered wigs for bigger matches. In general I tend to agree. Unfortunately, I have seen that attitude carried to extremes and the rule book just goes out the window. BTW, shoot through the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 The best thing to do is to show up early and help setup the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I would have gone with the program, too. That being said, many moons ago we had this stage set up at a local match (with Metric targets). It didn't say anything about shooting from the box, so me and my entire squad exited the box and shot 'em as we saw 'em with the mandatory reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I would have gone with the program, too. That being said, many moons ago we had this stage set up at a local match (with Metric targets).It didn't say anything about shooting from the box, so me and my entire squad exited the box and shot 'em as we saw 'em with the mandatory reloads. I think that takes the cake as far as gaming a stage, LOL F40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashdown Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I guess I don't see the problem with the barrel. If the stage description says you may only engage T4-T6 through the barrel, then that's what you do. It is essentially a port after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) I guess I don't see the problem with the barrel. If the stage description says you may only engage T4-T6 through the barrel, then that's what you do. It is essentially a port after all. +1 I see these stages all the time. Waco loves to shoot through barrels. Clear safety issues aside... Eric, given Classifier CM 03-06 A Barrel of Fun as an example, what are the safety issues? Edited April 8, 2006 by Steve J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Clear safety issues aside... Eric, given Classifier CM 03-06 A Barrel of Fun as an example, what are the safety issues? I'm not implying in any way, shape, or form that shooting through a barrel is a safety issue. All I'm saying that as long as what requested to do in the stage description in a Level I match is not unsafe, shut up and shoot the COF as requested. Level I matches are skill-builder matches that prepare us for bigger and better things. If the club doesn't have perfect props, then do what's requested and make the best of it. And if the usual suspects can't seem to handle L-I matches with less than perfect props, perhaps they should go to Home Depot, buy some lumber, and get busy. Ask the club president if you can donate props in exchange for match fees. Somewhere, somehow, there is a "constructive" solution to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 If the club doesn't have perfect props, then do what's requested and make the best of it. That's exactly how we ran our club for several years. I think it was our fourth year in business before we finally got to the point where everything is pretty much freestyle. I don't mind shooting box to box and/or through ports that don't have vision barriers to seperate arrays as long as the arrays are obvious and it doesn't turn into a memory stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperHater Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I'm okay with a little gaming but to not shoot throgh the barrel would be a little silly. You know the intent and nobody wants to drag out every prop in the shed to keep somebody from shooting over the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperHater Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I'm okay with a little gaming but to not shoot throgh the barrel would be a little silly. You know the intent and nobody wants to drag out every prop in the shed to keep somebody from shooting over the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 The best thing to do is to show up early and help setup the match. +! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Steve, Don't feel bad I read Eric's post the same way. Thanx for clearing it up, I was about to ask the same thing. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Steve, Don't feel bad I read Eric's post the same way. Thanx for clearing it up, I was about to ask the same thing. Craig My apologies for being unclear and being curt in my replies. Went through this locally at a recent match. I ended up designing and setting a course instead of the guy who was most qualified -- simply because he's so tired of all the griping stuff like this. When good people decide to sit on the sidelines instead of sharing their talent, it should give all of us pause to reflect on the attitude we bring with us to the match. Just an unsolicited opinion, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 for a good long while i set up 90% of our club 3 gun matchs. and a lot of the early stages were just like that, shoot from box A then go to the barrel then go to the port in 1 wall. while it doesn't have that freestyle feeling we all love it got the job done just the same. i mean i could work for hours setting up wall sections that force you to shoot thru ports, or i could just tell you what can be shot from where. but it was great when people started showing up to help and now the stages are much better and freestyle is back and life is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 but it was great when people started showing up to help and now the stages are much better and freestyle is back and life is good. I feel strongly that that is the life blood of a great club...recruiting new help/volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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