Sharyn Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 At a match recently, I had just drawn and was advancing to my first shooting position when someone in the crowd yelled "STOP, STOP!" The RO and I both stopped and turned our attention to see what the problem was. The "yeller" was from another squad and stated that we didn't start the stage correctly... Now, we all know what he did wasn't the greatest way to approach the matter, so NO NEED TO BERATE THE "YELLER"! I would just like to know the proper way to handle the situation AFTER someone in the crowd has stopped the shooter. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Most of the time the "STOP" command is made for safety. Anyone in the crowd could yell stop for example if they saw a person downrange the RO didn't see. I would say reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 After someone has managed to stop the shooter the shooter gets a reshoot. Should be up to the shooter to determine if she wants to continue immediately or be moved down the shooting order. Not to berate the vociferous interloper, but no one should behave this way. If you notice another squad starting improperly it would be best to quietly inform the RO after the shooter has finished. If the shooter was in fact started incorrectly then the reshoot is in order. If the "yeller" were to be in error it would be proper, though not gentlemanly, to tease him unmercilessly for some time. The applicable rules: 8.6 Assistance or Interference 8.6.1 No assistance of any kind can be given to a competitor during a course of fire, except that any Range Officer assigned to a stage may issue safety warnings to a competitor at any time. Such warnings will not be grounds for the competitor to be awarded a reshoot. 8.6.2 Any person providing assistance or interference to a competitor during a course of fire (and the competitor receiving such assistance) may, at the discretion of a Range Officer, incur a procedural penalty for that stage and/or be subject to Section 10.6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 Most of the time the "STOP" command is made for safety. Anyone in the crowd could yell stop for example if they saw a person downrange the RO didn't see. This is why we stopped... (I was imagining some toddler running downrange...) I would say reshoot. It was apparent that I was going to get a reshoot, but how should we have handled it "properly"? (The RO as well as myself) The RO offered to let me move down a few positions in the shooting order... since I hadn't shot any rounds yet, I didn't need to reload my mags or anything like that. I just asked him if it was ok if I checked my dot with my loaded gun, then I'd be ready to shoot. That's what we decided on. Maybe I should have unloaded, showed clear and that whole bit then started again with the LAMR??? AikiDale, we all know how out of line the "yeller" was and I'm sure he felt awful after he received my glare that makes steel plates fall. (I learned that from Athena... ) I was polite enough when I told him to shut the h*ll up and he apologized profusely. He won't forget his mistake for some time to come... The applicable rules:8.6 Assistance or Interference This is part of the answer, Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I was going to chime in, but it would be useless to add anything. What they said. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 The proper way to handle the situation is to stop. I had this happen to me once at Ghost Town Shooters when a doe antelope and two fawns wandered over the berm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Doesn't sound right to me. If other guys in the squad can yell stop for a non-emergency reason what's to stop collusion between shooters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Hold on a second. I gotta play devil's advocate here. The shooter missed the start position. The RO missed the start position. There is going to have to be a reshoot. Sounds like the guy saved the shooter a few dollars in ammo. Saved about 3 minutes of match time. Saved pasters and paint. Saved the whole squad from having to reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 As a shooter, I would much rather be stopped than blaze through a great run that won't score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Yeah, but I know my nerves get frazzelled a bit when someone screams stop when I'm shooting. I had a similar experience at the 2003 Nats. I had a light (dang near squib) load and a shooter yelled stop. I couldn't tell his voice from the RO through the electronic ears. Turned out there was no squib and I got a reshoot. Course I broke a link on the second round of the reshoot and lets just say my time was not impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) Dear Devil's Advocates, (unless you want to discuss the "what if's"...) The shooter did not miss the start position. The RO did not miss the start position. The start position was correct. When I'm shooting, I'm concentrating and very focused. I listen to the RO. I think it's horribly rude and unsportsmanlike for anyone other than the RO to stop a competitor for ANYTHING other than safety reasons. It's my responsibility to know the start position and my responsibility if I F it up. I always bring extra rounds to a match and I'll gladly pay an extra $0.25 or any fees incurred to paste the targets for a reshoot when I F up a start position... So long as you stay the h*ll out of my game if you're not the RO. Totally disrespectful to the shooter/competitor. argh. Everything was wrong up to the point and including stopping me. I didn't intend the topic to be about what reasons and rationale are acceptable for someone other than a RO to stop a shooter. FACT: I, the shooter, was stopped. What rules apply and how do we proceed from there? Now knowing rule 8.6 (thanks AikiDale), I believe the "yeller" could have earned himself a procedural. I could have asked to be moved down the shooting order for my reshoot while I gained my composure. I decided to go ahead and shoot immediately. Should we have unloaded, showed clear, etc. (also allowing me to go through my pre-stage routine/mental prep) or was it ok to just keep hot and pick up at "Shooter Ready?" Interesting perspective to the topic though. BTW, Troy... it wasn't Roger. FOR THE RECORD: If someone did this to me at an Area match or, gosh forbid, Nationals( ?) HEADS WOULD ROLL!!! Edited January 29, 2006 by Sharyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 As a shooter, I would much rather be stopped than blaze through a great run that won't score. Right. And if you and your RO were right and the bozo from the other squad was wrong...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 As a shooter, I would much rather be stopped than blaze through a great run that won't score. Right. And if you and your RO were right and the bozo from the other squad was wrong...? If you're able to determine if he's got a horse in the race, 10.6.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 .....keep hot and pick up at "Shooter Ready?"Interesting perspective to the topic though. BTW, Troy... it wasn't Roger. FOR THE RECORD: If someone did this to me at an Area match or, gosh forbid, Nationals( ?) HEADS WOULD ROLL!!! Heck, Sharyn, I might have yelled STOP if I'd heard that improper range command.... You are correct: it is improper for anyone to interfere unless it's a safety situation, and even then, I have my doubts as to the competitors being able to see everything correctly. I think that the "steel melting glare" and STHU were appropriate as was the immediate restart, as long as you were ready to go again. And, it could be appropriate to assess a penalty, but I don't think I would for an isolated instance. It would be a bigger deal at a larger match where the staff for each stage was dedicated--I assume this was not the case, but let me know if that's wrong. Again, sounds like it was handled correctly. Did the pique help you shoot any better? Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 Heck, Sharyn, I might have yelled STOP if I'd heard that improper range command.... Troy... so long as the RO leaves "lil filly" out of the commands, I'm happy. [texan accent] Y'unnerstan da corz o'fire, lil filly? [/texan accent] You are correct: it is improper for anyone to interfere unless it's a safety situation, and even then, I have my doubts as to the competitors being able to see everything correctly. I think that the "steel melting glare" and STHU were appropriate as was the immediate restart, as long as you were ready to go again.And, it could be appropriate to assess a penalty, but I don't think I would for an isolated instance. It would be a bigger deal at a larger match where the staff for each stage was dedicated--I assume this was not the case, but let me know if that's wrong. Again, sounds like it was handled correctly. Did the pique help you shoot any better? Troy Thanks for the answers! It was a National Qualifier match but the incident didn't pull me all the way out of my "zone". That's why I wanted to shoot immediately. I really didn't think tooooo much about it (lucky for him!) because I was the first shooter on that stage and my mental prep had started on the stage before. I was mentally pretty deep into that stage. Had I waited, I would have just gotten pissed. Certainly didn't help me shoot any better though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 FOR THE RECORD: If someone did this to me at an Area match or, gosh forbid, Nationals( ?) HEADS WOULD ROLL!!! Oh you better pray I don't find your squad during the Nationals.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 After careful consideration, and re-reading, this is just a bad situation any way you approach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 FOR THE RECORD: If someone did this to me at an Area match or, gosh forbid, Nationals( ?) HEADS WOULD ROLL!!! Oh you better pray I don't find your squad during the Nationals.... Jake, I think I'd have a really hard time convincing the BoD or the President himself to assess you a penalty for interfering with my shooting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 FOR THE RECORD: If someone did this to me at an Area match or, gosh forbid, Nationals( ?) HEADS WOULD ROLL!!! Oh you better pray I don't find your squad during the Nationals.... Jake, I think I'd have a really hard time convincing the BoD or the President himself to assess you a penalty for interfering with my shooting... I think it would depend on which one of you is wearing the "green thingy" when determining who gets the penalty! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Troy... so long as the RO leaves "lil filly" out of the commands, I'm happy. What if he says "Poke it and stroke it, ma'am." ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Troy... so long as the RO leaves "lil filly" out of the commands, I'm happy. What if he says "Poke it and stroke it, ma'am." ?? Get the range commands correct. It's: Stoke it, Stroke it, Flick it, Stick it ---- at least for the 19/2011 variants...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Troy... so long as the RO leaves "lil filly" out of the commands, I'm happy. What if he says "Poke it and stroke it, ma'am." ?? Get the range commands correct. It's: Stoke it, Stroke it, Flick it, Stick it ---- at least for the 19/2011 variants...... You know, I just feel just a little dirty after reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 "lil filly" LOL. I've got to try and remember that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Troy... so long as the RO leaves "lil filly" out of the commands, I'm happy. What if he says "Poke it and stroke it, ma'am." ?? Get the range commands correct. It's: Stoke it, Stroke it, Flick it, Stick it ---- at least for the 19/2011 variants...... You know, I just feel just a little dirty after reading that. Well, George, Having met you, I understand why you would..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Hey...I forgot I stirred this pot. Sharyn, you left out a piece of information...whether you started in the prescribed start position or not. That is why I went into Devil's Advocate mode. Um-K? Maybe it doesn't matter. But, this is a discussion forum, and that avenue needed some travel. Rule wise...it is a reshoot. I always give the shooter their option of when they want to reshoot. After all, it is their turn...so, they get to call it at that point. As for the shooter that yelled out... Was he right? If so, then I won't give a penalty. He wasn't trying to thwart a competitors run, he was trying to help. Was he wrong? Well then, did his squad start it wrong? Do they all need to reshoot? Does the MD need to change something in the walk through? (Sometimes it's my duty to throw these questions out for discussion...with the goal of us talking through them and learning. Mongo like learnin'.) Edited February 1, 2006 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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