Gun Cleaning

[chad s]

I just ordered some j-b bore cleaning compound from brownells. After following all the instuctions properly, i've used up so many patches, i can't count em anymore, and still am pulling black crud out of my barrel. Just to let you know, i'm not one of those people who never cleans their guns. So, my question is??? am i really still pulling fouling out of my barrel, or is this just some chemical reaction in this paste that is turing my patches black? I realize there are alot of variables in asking this question, but i thought there might be a simple answer. Thanks

[John Dunn]

How many rounds through the barrel since the last cleaning? Are you using Kroil? How does the patch feel going through the barrel?

[chad s]

let me update this a little, I have learned alot about gun cleaning in the last couple months. I used to clean regularily, but only with hoppes or break free or similar, untill patches came out clean. This problem now, is after multiple scrubbings whith a nylon brush and barnes cr-10. So im wondering am i still pulling out fouling from all the improper cleanings before with this j-b bore cleaning compound? Does anyone use this stuff? To answer your questions, no im not using kroil, and patches were dragging at first, but are feeling pretty smooth now.

[stingerjg]

The first time i cleaned using Kroil and JB bore paste. I used just the JB and i kept getting dirty patches. Then I used the procedure recomended by Brownells using both. Clean up was alot faster when i used the Kroil.

[Bullzeye]

I just cleaned my barrel with JB bore cleaner then followed it up with the JB bore shine after that. I thought the amt of black crud from the bore cleaner was alot until I used the bore shine. The bore shine cleaned out a ton more fouling out of the barrel.

It seemed like I was getting tighter groups at the my next practice session at the range after I cleaned out all the junk. I guess that makes sense that I would.

[John Dunn]

I'd suggest adding Kroil to the equation. Are you working the same patch up and down the barrel multiple times? I don't think Ive ever used more than 3 JB patches, but I do work it back and forth, especially in the throat area or ony tight spots.

[Carmoney]

I've seen that happen with other mildly-abrasive cleaning compounds too. Some of the rifle guys use Flitz to get the copper fouling out of their barrels, and the patches keep coming out black forever.

[Action Pistolero]

I've seen that happen with other mildly-abrasive cleaning compounds too. Some of the rifle guys use Flitz to get the copper fouling out of their barrels, and the patches keep coming out black forever.

The patches will always come out black when using JB or a product like it. When using JB you are actually removing metal. Not much, mind you but that is what is making the patches black.

I start off with a few wet patches of Shooters choice then a bronze brush. Nylon brushes are a waste of my time. Bronze will not hurt the bore. I run a few more wet patches through and then a dry patch. Then run a few wet patches with cr-10. If I get a lot of blue I'll wet the brush with cr-10. If I find more crud in there I'll run a few patches of JB through it. Then run a few more wet patches to get the JB out. I'll then spray out the barrel with gunscrubber and run a dry patch through. The last step is an oily patch. You never want to leave any remnants of solvent in the bore. This is were the most damage occurs. When I was using an AET barrel I would have to use JB to clean out the flutes in the chamber. The barrel would always produce excellant groups.

Kevin

[bountyhunter]

I've seen that happen with other mildly-abrasive cleaning compounds too. Some of the rifle guys use Flitz to get the copper fouling out of their barrels, and the patches keep coming out black forever.

The patches will always come out black when using JB or a product like it. When using JB you are actually removing metal. Not much, mind you but that is what is making the patches black.

Kevin

I don't think so. I used J+B paste to polish the plastic lense of a flashlight and it left no fine hazing at all. It is finer than even the finist plastic polish I have, so I guarantee you are not removing bore metal in this lifetime.

I work J+B into the bristles of a nylon bore brush and go after it with gusto. Then patches with hoppes or the cleaner of your choice. Look down the bore to see if it's all clean.

[Singlestack]

I've seen that happen with other mildly-abrasive cleaning compounds too. Some of the rifle guys use Flitz to get the copper fouling out of their barrels, and the patches keep coming out black forever.

The patches will always come out black when using JB or a product like it. When using JB you are actually removing metal. Not much, mind you but that is what is making the patches black.

Kevin

I don't think so. I used J+B paste to polish the plastic lense of a flashlight and it left no fine hazing at all. It is finer than even the finist plastic polish I have, so I guarantee you are not removing bore metal in this lifetime.

I work J+B into the bristles of a nylon bore brush and go after it with gusto. Then patches with hoppes or the cleaner of your choice. Look down the bore to see if it's all clean.

I do think so. JB bore paste is an abrasive.

The last time I got a pistol back from getting hard chromed, it was so tight the slide would barely move. I used JB on the rails and sat in front of the TV for about 1 hour working the slide. It polished the chrome and made it smooth and easy to cycle. If it can polish/remove hard chrome, it will polish remove/bore metal.

[dajarrel]

ANY metal polish is an abrasive. I cannot speak to a cromed barrel but stainless and carbon steels will always return a black patch until you remove the JB. Solvents only cut the crud (for the most part) but polishes work by removing the non-smooth irregularities of the metal they are rubbing on. This can include base metal as well as lead and copper.

Even red jewelers rouge removes metal, but it sure leaves a great shine.

FWIW

dj

[chad s]

Thanks for all the input everyone. It appears I've opened a can of worms as far as using j-b is concerned. SO, the people that say i am removing metal, would you say using j-b is a bad thing, or is it just a bi-product of having to have a clean bore? I've noticed results, when using it, by looking down the end of the barrel with a light, but I suppose everyone has their favorite cleaner. Everyone has a differnet opinion, and you know what they say about opinions....

[Canuck-IL]

I use it twice a year on each barrel...regular use of Kroil and Hoppe's all the rest of the time is quite adequate.

/Bryan

[dajarrel]

SO, the people that say i am removing metal, would you say using j-b is a bad thing, or is it just a bi-product of having to have a clean bore?

If I implyed that using JB or any other polish was a bad thing, I apologize. I was just pointing out the way it worked and the fact that the patches would always be black or dark gray due to the way it cleans. You eventually have to clean the paste out and see how it looks.

Sometimes paste/polishes are required to do the job of cleaning. That will always be the call of the cleaner, not someone else sitting at a computer console several thousand miles away. If your gun is nasty to You... then clean it. You will be happier with it and you are the one who counts... with your gun.

I personally very seldom clean the bore of any gun I have. I will push/pull a swab with breakfree or a boresnake to clean out the gross nastiness, but unless I have changed my lead load and SEE some buildup or notice that my gun has lost all semblence of accuracy, I don't clean the bore. That's just the way that I like it.

Just my humble opinion.

Have fun, be safe

dj

[Singlestack]

SO, the people that say i am removing metal, would you say using j-b is a bad thing, or is it just a bi-product of having to have a clean bore?

If I implyed that using JB or any other polish was a bad thing, I apologize.

Ditto

[Squishy]

What is Kroil ? And where do you get it . I have never heard of it.

[jjanglin]

Guys!!!!

You dont need to use that stuff if you are shooting jacketed bullets,If you are

shooting lead a lewis lead remover now and then and an oil swab is all you need

JB is an abrasive and doesnt do your barrels much good.

Go to Wil Schuemanns web site and read what he says about barrel cleaning

and all the chemicals folks use .

Wil use to be a scientist at NASA and his views are good as gold.

Anything other than an oiled patch in your barrel is seriously damgaging your

pistol barrels, quality barrels that is, barrels like Para uses can benefit from

JB bore polish when new and that s all.

Jim

Sailors custom Pistols

[John Dunn]

When I hear JB I assume we're talking rifle barrels. Never used it on pistol barrels.

The debates on rifle barrel break in, various cleaning regimens, whether moly is great or the greatest barrel killer of all time, are endless. The evidence is anecdotal, not scientific. No one has the money or time or ammo to wear out the number of barrels it would take to reach statistical significance.

I don't break in barrels, I use moly in some barrels, use JB on occasion if a barrel has seen a lot of rounds. It's all voodoo. Do what makes sense to you, do what makes you happy.

[ima45dv8]

I used to be religious about cleaning my pistols, but I got over it.

I've got ~27,000 rounds through a barrel with nothing but bullets ever passing down the tube. Nothing. No oil, boresnake, patch, jag, etc. Truth be told, I haven't done much maintenance to rest of it, either. I keep the rails and the front of the barrel where the bushing contacts in battery oiled and that's about it. Withh all that neglect it's still an Energizer Bunny.

None of the rounds fired were lead, just copper-washed (Rainiers) and Precision black-bullets over WW231. It still shoots like when I first got it. I just looked down the bore and I wish I could take a picture in there. My camera just isn't up to it.

One of our local indoor ranges has put in a Ransom Rest recently. It looks like a very secure setup, anchored in concrete with a steel post to support the steel table top. If I remember the next time I'm there I'll see if the owner will let me jig it up and run a few patterns with it.

[Canuck-IL]

What is Kroil ? And where do you get it . I have never heard of it.

Kroil is the ultimate penetrating oil...WD40 on steroids, displaces water and they claim it lubricates altho I don't trust that...I run a patch worm with Kroil down the barrel while it's still warm (when I remember, usually after using lead), by the time I get home, a couple of dry patches and it's usually done ... finish up with FP-10 or BreakFree for bore protection until the next use.

Brownell's and Midway both sell it...8 oz last a long time.

Another great product for lead is RB-17 - but damn hard to find...Sinclair carries it, otherwise, you have to call the company (TX) and pay a little more.

/Bryan

[straightshooter1]

Benchrest shooters seem to have started the Kroil craze ten or more years ago. The usual mix is 2 parts Shooters Choice with 1 part Kroil. Shake it before you use it and simply put it on patches like you would any solvent. It works pretty good, I have personally used it on rifles for the past decade. Many bench rest shooters only use one or two patches of this in their barrels, & never use a brush. Lube quality is great.

Sinclair's was the place we used to get it, but, as noted above, Midway and others now carry it. I would not use it on a defensive handgun for the same reasons I would not use WD40. When I was a cop during the late 60s/early 70s we all used WD40 since it made cleaning soooooo easy. Just spray it on, let it sit a bit, and wipe it off. Of course we learned, the hard way, about something called "migration" where the smallest residue ended up killing the primers and, instead of "bang" when we pulled the trigger, we got a "click." Very embarrassing. Eventually I seem to recall a nationwide or statewide bulletin to law enforcement about not using it on our duty weapons. A few months ago, I saw some gun writer recommending using WD40 to clean guns. Don't know if the formula is still the same or not, but I would not use it on any weapon that I depended on.

I don't know that Kroil will affect primers like WD40 did, but I would not take a chance. I was one of those cops whose gun went "click" when it should have gone "bang" but, fortunately, it was not a life and death situation when it happened. Got my attention real well, though.

Bob

Edited February 10, 2006 by straightshooter1

[Tim R]

I use both JB's products in my rifles and pistols in order to remove copper quickly. I also use it in limited applications on my .22's for lead removel/chamber cleaning. I don't use a lot of it and it's always had a wet patch of solvent go in first. I limit the number of patches with JB's to 3 or 4 depending on just how bad the copper is. A very bright light wil help you see the copper in the bore.

Chad, while I would not have gone through as many patches as you did, I would have to say you must have one shiney barrel. I don't believe you would have hurt it as JB's is very mild. I use a couple of rifles for High Power. My AR fired 14 88 shot matches last year and is still shooting tight groups.

I also agree with using a Lewis Lead remover if you have a build up of lead. I'm also thinking after watching how a Glock barrel builds up copper if lack of cleaning in some cases might not cause a rise in pressure. JB's cleans that too.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Tim R

[cking]

Unless you have a bore scope your just guessing how clean your barrel is. Precision shooting magazine has gone all through this, with pictures of the bore.

Rifles usually have a stubborn carbon ring just in front of the chamber. It will ruin accuracy and is very hard to remove if it builds up. Also about 2/3 of the way down barrel is usual another dirty build up spot.

Moly bullets, copper bullets, lead bullets all do it. Only ones that reduce it are those that don't have exposed lead at the base.

Using JB paste with bore brush is diffcult to get a tight fit. Use the double felt bob holder from brownells.

Clean the bore with your favorite Hoppes whatever. That removes most of the loose stuff. Then use the felt bob's I soak them with Kroil or Wd40 and then work the jb paste in.

without a bore scope you will have to tell by feeling the tight spots in the barrel. If it is an AR you can clean the barrel with something like break cleaner to remove all oils then dry patch and then take it out into bright sunlight and you will be able to see some of the grung spots, only with lots of sunlight and good eyes.

work on just the bad spots, could take alot of scrubbing.

You'll hear different barrel makers say yes or no to this process. The main problem is at the muzzle end. Put some tape on clean rod or a stop and don't let the felt bob's come out the muzzle end. Until your ready to finish cleaning. They will always come out black.

Unless you have a fancy hand polished Krieger etc barrel. Your barrel is rough and will crud up until it smoothed out by shooting and clean with JB.

That's why Tubb's sells his grit covered bullets, a poor mans bore polish.

Don't worry about wearing out your barrel with JB. Barrels wear out just in front of chamber, Lots of guys buy old good quality shot out barrels cut them off rechamber and back in business.

Jb works fine on pistol barrels too.

[shred]

Sinclair's was the place we used to get it, but, as noted above, Midway and others now carry it. I would not use it on a defensive handgun for the same reasons I would not use WD40. When I was a cop during the late 60s/early 70s we all used WD40 since it made cleaning soooooo easy. Just spray it on, let it sit a bit, and wipe it off. Of course we learned, the hard way, about something called "migration" where the smallest residue ended up killing the primers and, instead of "bang" when we pulled the trigger, we got a "click." Very embarrassing. Eventually I seem to recall a nationwide or statewide bulletin to law enforcement about not using it on our duty weapons. A few months ago, I saw some gun writer recommending using WD40 to clean guns. Don't know if the formula is still the same or not, but I would not use it on any weapon that I depended on.

I use WD40 to clean my race guns all the time. It works great on chromed blasters. Since they're not stored with ammo in them, the migration problem is close to zero, especially as it seems modern WD40 doesn't reliably disable primers anymore.

[cking]

I'm not advocating lots of WD40 or Kroil such that you would find it rolling around in the action of gun.

Just enough to soften the felt bob's and thin the JB paste a little.

For my AR's I use the sinclair hold open pin and JP bore guide thing that goes into the carrier area and seals with oring. Plus I stuff rags over the open lower.

I'm a grease fan not oil. I use a little synthetic on my accurails on pistol, but not much.

I have basic funtion test. load it nothing in chamber put safety on then then put in in sand kick some over it. Then pick it up make sure barrel is not obstructed and then proceed to shoot with it. Both for Rifle and pistols.

But then I like to clean my guns with hot soapy water and sometimes I use the dishwasher.