.38 Special Load Search Update

[revchuck]

I posted earlier looking for help finding .38 Special loads that would make a 130 PF from a 4" barrel without going into +P territory. I finally got caught up in my civilian job, and decided that the remaining debris from Rita wasn't going anywhere, and just wanted to load some ammo - and I was completely out of .38 Special.

Of the powders I had on hand (231, 7625, 4756, PB, Unique, Longshot and Silhouette) I picked 231 to start with due to recommendations from a couple of shooters. I loaded up 20 rounds each of 4.5 grains (standard pressure) and 4.7 grains (+P) under Zero 158 grain RNLs in mixed brass, with Fed 100 primers. OAL was 1.45". I used a new-to-me 4" S&W M10-8, produced around '84 according to its serial number.

First up was my carry load (Remington +P 158 grain LSWC-HP), since I hadn't chronographed it in that gun. The first round from a clean barrel went about 860 fps; the next five averaged about 940 fps (!). Then I chronographed the 4.5 grain load, and it averaged around 860 fps. The 4.7 grain load came in about 890 fps.

I put a target up at 25 yards, and carefully shot a cylinderful. I called one flyer; the other five went into a 2" wide, 1" high group, exactly on top of the front sight. I checked the target and smugly returned to fire a cylinderful of the 4.7 grain load. It went into about 4" - so much for being smug. At least it was centered on top of the front sight.

I loaded 300 rounds of the 4.5 grain load yesterday, plus 60 rounds of 4.7 grains of 231 under 158 grain Berry plated RNs. I chronoed them this morning, and the velocity spread predictably tightened up when I used loads with the same headstamp, but still came out at about 860 fps. I purposely used six different headstamps and chronoed it, and the ES was 103 fps, about 3X what it was with all R-P brass. The Berry's chronoed at 835; I didn't get a chance to target them due to impending rain.

Finally, I chronoed another cylinderful of the Remington ammo, this time from a dirty barrel, and it averaged 954 fps.

I need to chrono this from my other 4" K frames to see if the load really is that fast, or if maybe this particular gun is "fast". But I have enough left to shoot the matches this Thursday night and Saturday morning, and I know it'll make the PF.

Success this early in the search has me scared - I'm afraid the rest might be anti-climax. Then again, the load could be cleaner...

[AzShooter]

Yeah, 231 is a great powder but very dirty. Looks like you found the right load.

Now you know how important it is to keep all the brass the same. I buy a case of Fed 158 grainers in January, shoot them until they are gone and then use that for my brass for the year.

Try using the same headstamp. your groups will be tightest this way also.

[Ted Murphy]

Chuck,

Funny, that's the same load (4.7 231, Berrys Bullet) I've been using. I think it is a +P load though. I was using 4.8gr but lowered it after the chrono at this year's IDPA nats. I had more safety margin than I needed.

I use the same charge with a 147 grain LTC for PF as well.

FWIW, the +P 158grain LSWC-HP loads make 127pf out of my j frame. Pretty good stuff.

Ted

[Hank Ellis]

FWIW, the +P 158grain LSWC-HP loads make 127pf out of my j frame.

Tossed 10 of Winchester +P 158gr LSWCHP across the chrono just to see what it'd do. Mean velocity of 826.5 with a mean PF of 130.6. This out of a S&W 642 2 inch. A bit of a handfull in my hands. I mentioned what I was running in the 642 to the S&W rep at a match. He kinda winced and said it's a bit of a hot load for that gun. Safe but not the best choice. He suggested a 125 to 135gr load would hammer the gun less and be easier to shoot.

Also put 10 of Winchester 150gr LRN (Win white box) across the screens using the same gun. Mean velocity of 685.3 with a mean PF of 102.8.

BTW: This chrono work was for a baseline in developing a practice load for the 642. Nothing to do with any of the gun games.

[Ted Murphy]

I mentioned what I was running in the 642 to the S&W rep at a match. He kinda winced and said it's a bit of a hot load for that gun. Safe but not the best choice. He suggested a 125 to 135gr load would hammer the gun less and be easier to shoot.

Yep, that load's hard on the aluminum J frames. I've already had the crane replaced on my one 442. I've shot quite a few of them in the gun but usually use my IDPA load for practice.

Still, I think it's a pretty good SD load. I doubt the lighter bullets will get up enough steam in the 2" tube to expand, so I like the SWC and heavier bullet.

Ted

[GmanCdp]

I mentioned what I was running in the 642 to the S&W rep at a match. He kinda winced and said it's a bit of a hot load for that gun. Safe but not the best choice. He suggested a 125 to 135gr load would hammer the gun less and be easier to shoot.

Yep, that load's hard on the aluminum J frames. I've already had the crane replaced on my one 442. I've shot quite a few of them in the gun but usually use my IDPA load for practice.

Still, I think it's a pretty good SD load. I doubt the lighter bullets will get up enough steam in the 2" tube to expand, so I like the SWC and heavier bullet.

Ted

so??? what would be a good standard load for IDPA, out of a 4" 586....125 hp or 158 rn?

Edited May 23, 2006 by GmanCdp

[revchuck]

so??? what would be a good standard load for IDPA, out of a 4" 586....125 hp or 158 rn?

I'd go with the 158 grain RN. If nothing else, it'll give quicker reloads. If you don't have a .38 Special revolver, or can successfully segregate your loads, you can use either in .38 brass and make the PF, though you'll be over listed .38 Special data for the 125 grain loads. The heavier bullets are supposed to yield less perceived recoil for a given PF.

Lead bullets, Berry's and FMJs can be used in the 586 in .38 brass, since it's a .357 Mag. I've decided to use my M19 as my dedicated competition revolver for that reason.

Now that I'm officially finished teaching for the school year, I can finish my load search.

[Ignatz]

I was given some Solo 1000 and have been using it in my model 15. I was using the load data on their website and the velocities out of my 4" gun are too slow. They showed 3.4 as the highest charge for the 158 gr. bullet. The laser-cast bullet was in the low 700's and the Hornady bullet was in the low 600's. I'm bumping it up to 3.7 and will check the velocities when I get a chance. The stuff burns clean. I thought there was something wrong with my Chrono untill I shot a Glock over it with white box Win. 9mm. about 1140 fps.

[Bubber]

I was given some Solo 1000 and have been using it in my model 15. I was using the load data on their website and the velocities out of my 4" gun are too slow. They showed 3.4 as the highest charge for the 158 gr. bullet. The laser-cast bullet was in the low 700's and the Hornady bullet was in the low 600's. I'm bumping it up to 3.7 and will check the velocities when I get a chance. The stuff burns clean. I thought there was something wrong with my Chrono untill I shot a Glock over it with white box Win. 9mm. about 1140 fps.

I also use Solo 1000 in a 38 special but it is a 6 inch 686. 3.7 with a lead 158 grain bullet should get you 820 to 830 as a guess only. 3.5 in my 686 6" gave me from 828 to 837 average. Good luck

[jmorris]

I have been using 4.2gr of Bullseye behind a 158gr berry’s, loaded long (in a 4” 686), successfully in IDPA SSR (chronograph in your gun as it’s pretty close to PF). The berry’s come to more of a point that seems to help on reloads.

[RePete]

My IPSC load for my 4" 686 is

158gr LSWC

4.3gr Bullseye

PF = 130

To me that's perfect. I know, I know = dirty, but hey, if it works?

RePete.