Taurus 608 Competition

[Fishbreath]

Took a while after the rumors, but Taurus has an entrant in the unported 8-round, 6" field for USPSA/IPSC Revolver or ICORE Limited. MSRP of $1059.

[VeilAndrew]

Google says 38/357. Does that make it a miss?

[Joe4d]

why ? 38 short brass is readily available, loads 147-160 gr bullets without the bullet walking or set back issue of 9mm, moonclips are available and work well, and moonclip shooters rarely lose brass,   sc is way better than 9mm for revolvers..
Only thing I see, is the angles of the frame look like an LPA sight.. woulda been simple to machine a optic groove and short rail into the frame

[Fishbreath]

Caleb Giddings said on Instagram that there's already an Allchin mount for the 608, so an optic wouldn't be a big deal.

 

I was toying with the idea of picking one up myself, as a loaner/backup-to-my-backups, but I might be switching back to Short Colt myself soon, and I would need to spend that money on brass and moon clips instead.

 

For my part, I wish that Taurus had gone with a standard Novak dovetail like Ruger did on the Super GP, rather than a fiddly pinned front.

[RangerMcFadden]

10 hours ago, Joe4d said:

why

When you heavily advertise your gun as having a “radically machined” cylinder to reduce the work the hand has to do to rotate it, but then add mass to accommodate a 357 cartridge a competitor would likely not use, it misses the point.

Putting it in 9mm would allow for the advantage they’re claiming/striving for while, likely, preserving the mainstream marketability.

 

But putting it in 357 doesn’t “kill it”.

Releasing it and not making any like Ruger will kill it. Shipping’ ‘em out with sideways barrels and crooked yokes like S&W will kill it.

 

I did watch a guntuber “review” it I’m not sure if it was her technique but I could hear two very distinct getups in the trigger.

[Makicjf]

14 hours ago, Fishbreath said:

 

I was toying with the idea of picking one up myself, as a loaner/backup-to-my-backups, but I might be switching back to Short Colt myself soon, and I would need to spend that money on brass and moon clips instead.

Do you know if s&w 357/38 clips fit it?

Jason

[Dr. Phil]

18 hours ago, Joe4d said:

why ? 38 short brass is readily available, loads 147-160 gr bullets without the bullet walking or set back issue of 9mm, moonclips are available and work well, and moonclip shooters rarely lose brass,   sc is way better than 9mm for revolvers..
Only thing I see, is the angles of the frame look like an LPA sight.. woulda been simple to machine a optic groove and short rail into the frame

Wondering why 38SC is "way better" than 9mm? Many have shot both for years. Wondering what your experience has picked up things which many of ours has not?

Thank you for the knowledge.

[Joe4d]

Better because I dont see any advantage in 9mm.  38 short can do anything 9mm can do. Id only see 9mm being an advantage if the cylinder was shortened and a 38 short colt gun probably wouldnt sell to many. 
The 608 can shoot factory ammo,,  Try getting executives to sign off on a gun that no factory ammo exists that will work in it.  Current 9mm revolvers on the market arnt really 9mm revolvers.. They are revolvers shooting reloaded .358 long loaded ammo in 9mm cases. factory ammo with few and far between exceptions will not work.
So "way better" I guess in terms of versatility.. Shoot ICORE on Saturday with shorts,, shoot pins on Sunday with licoln logs., Put it bed side with some 125 JHP;s the rest of the week. Stop by walmart and pick up some USA 38 specials and go shoot.
 

[Makicjf]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Phil said:

Wondering why 38SC is "way better" than 9mm? Many have shot both for years. Wondering what your experience has picked up things which many of ours has not?

Thank you for the knowledge.

I can answer for myself and my experiences

 The 929 only headspaces on the moon clips, as the shoulder is set for 9x21.  Establishing proper clip-brass relationship was a pain.

  Sticky extraction until you polish the cylinder and find a brass and PF the princess likes.

  130 of is max before sticky... The 929 is a one trick pony...no hunting or sd rounds need apply

 A  "9mm" Revo with a 357 barrel .

Any factory ammo walks, and accuracy was poor due to mismatch in bore to bullet

 I simply didn't find the squeeze worth the juice on the 929.

 My 627's can do anything a 929 can, plus shoot 38 special and 357, sd or hunting ammo is no issue.

   The only potential fly in the ointment is accuracy loss due to the jump to the throat.  Long bearing surface long nose bullets shoot better than I can at shooting sport distances.  I could not get light/short bullets to shoot well .  My personal opinion is the long bullet gently corrects bullet yaw entering the throat; short bullets slam at odd angles 

   The only potential advantage to a light bullet would be quicker to target in SCSA, but I'm not fast enough to need that margin. I'm gonna get stomped by a lot more than .001 second per shot.

  If the 929 was actually chambered for 9 mm, could shoot  any pressure 9mm  ammo w/o sticky extraction, had a .355 bore, and could run factory ammo I may have kept the 2 I had.

   The 627 is still a more complete, capable handgun as a 929 will never be a lower 48 woods gun.

Ymmv,

Jason

[Toolguy]

There is a lot of logic and experience in the above post. I have come to most of the same conclusions.

[Dr. Phil]

I see.

When I got my 929, the first thing I did was get the bullet creep thing right. Mine has never been polished but I never get sticky extraction. I then sorted my brass and use FC and occasionally Win, nothing else need apply.

I don't hunt anymore so I could care less about that. If I did, I would use a 44 Mag because compared to that the 357 is a weak sister. I used to handgun hunt so I know from experience. The Contender is better.

My guns never get factory ammo. Why bother when I can load whatever I want to?

If I want to shoot 38 0r 357, I go to one of a couple 686 or 686+ guns that I have had chambered to 9mm or the stock guns. I don't use the 38 for competition so I don't bother. But I could if I want to.

I shoot .3575 or .358 coated bullets. That was about the 2nd thing I corrected.

Ballistics on the 9mm are better. I can load at 95PF for steel challenge, or shoot any of the heavy (135, 147 or 155 gr coated) for steel with no extraction issues at 135 pf. 

These arguments are all older that the hills. We shoot what we want, because we want to. 

38SC brass is more expensive. With all of the "factory 9mm is $x/k and reloading is $xy/k" arguments the cost apparently does matter to some. My equipment is set up for 9mm. 

My 38/357 setup also does the .900 38 "mid colts". They can be loaded up to and including bowling pin loads if necessary. I rarely shoot any of them anymore. The 357 has its niche but competition is not it for me. 

I don't know the thickness of the 38SC moon clips but my 686+ clips are either .022 or .025 and bend or twist from average use. The 9mm clips are .035 (which is what the 929 was made to use) or .040. The 686+ clips are .035.

I still don't see the affection for the 38SC.

Although I still have a yen for a nice 627 V-Comp! But that is another subject.

[Makicjf]

45 minutes ago, Dr. Phil said:

don't see the affection for the 38SC.

There is no accounting for taste.

I think you are on the money.  We like what we like.

  About the 357 and hunting..

When I was younger, I loved my 454.  320 gc'ef bullets with 103% case capacity of H110 was more "fun" than should be allowed.  It would shoot through a hogs shoulder and just keep going.

  Know, at 52, my wrists complain and I can't remember the last time I shot my 454.

  I did shoot an adrenalized 500 plus lb herbivore with a 357 at about 90 yards to startling effect. The wfn smack him in the ribs, he hurumphed, sat on his butt, blood shot out of his nose and he expired in a few seconds.   I'll never doubt how effective a 158  wfn at 1200 fps , at reasonable ranges and decently placed can be

 

  Jason

  PS

 I still think the perfect packin pistol is a Ruger Redhawk chambered in 45 Colt with the Bowen extended firing pin and an extended transfer bar.... I could never get the 100% ignition with a da pull that was acceptable.

 Linebaugh says 25-5 4 inch can take a few Ruger loads, but I'm not willing to test it.

 In deference to my abused and aging appendages, I still think about a 45 Colt mountain gun for packing. 

 A 260 wfn at 875-900 fps will make big holes.

 

 

Edited Friday at 03:45 PM by Makicjf

[Dr. Phil]

16 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

There is no accounting for taste.

I think you are on the money.  We like what we like.

  About the 357 and hunting..

When I was younger, I loved my 454.  320 gc'ef bullets with 103% case capacity of H110 was more "fun" than should be allowed.  It would shoot through a hogs shoulder and just keep going.

  Know, at 52, my wrists complain and I can't remember the last time I shot my 454.

  I did shoot an adrenalized 500 plus lb herbivore with a 357 at about 90 yards to startling effect. The wfn smack him in the ribs, he hurumphed, sat on his butt, blood shot out of his nose and he expired in a few seconds.   I'll never doubt how effective a 158  wfn at 1200 fps , at reasonable ranges and decently placed can be

 

  Jason

  PS

 I still think the perfect packin pistol is a Ruger Redhawk chambered in 45 Colt with the Bowen extended firing pin and an extended transfer bar.... I could never get the 100% ignition with a da pull that was acceptable.

 Linebaugh says 25-5 4 inch can take a few Ruger loads, but I'm not willing to test it.

 In deference to my abused and aging appendages, I still think about a 45 Colt mountain gun for packing. 

 A 260 wfn at 875-900 fps will make big holes.

 

 

52! I remember 52 like it was only 17 years ago!

I agree fully that the louder and more ferocious the better. Until arthritis and hearing aids and the rest. My favorites were always the 30 Herrett Contender and the 3" ported 44 Mag. I shot a 25 yard PPC course once with a Lou Horton 2 1/2" 44 Mag with 180gr full house loads. Man was prone ever fun that day!

I like shiny new (or old) things like everybody else. But I am not in the "I just don't like shooting what everyone else does" camp either.

Happy shooting, and to all a good night.

[pskys2]

The reason most of us shoot 38 short colts are:1) shortest oal for a perceived advantage on reloading in a cof, 2)less case capacity so less powder needed to make pf, 3)accuracy drop off due to bullet jump is small, if at all,4) can pretty much use 9mm dies.

But there is no reason one cant use 38 special loads with Starline brass and tight moonclips.  Jess Christensen does and it hasn't seemed to hurt his performance.

I've shot with 357 mag Starline cases and tight moonclips with no issues.  Except it uses more powder to make pf, and at the low pf we shoot can lead to larger velocity spreads.

Now if you use other brand cases you will need looser moonclips and there the reloads in a cof become harder.

[RangerMcFadden]

I like how all of our threads with any substantial discourse on them only come in two flavors:
1.) 929 vs 627
2.) Optics

 

Maybe this is why everyone hates us.

Going back on topic (maybe) I feel like the fact that I haven't seen anyone at a regional/WRC/IRC try and make a (non competitor) 608 a serious thing is telling of what our niche market demographic wants. 

[Joe4d]

were the older 608's cut for moons ? on an 8 shot pretty much a deal breaker, the ports you could get around in ICORE in open,,I guess not in USPSA,, but realistically, if you are the only revolver guy there would it matter ?  See what the street price is, but if its 800-900 be worth trying.. with the chamfer cylinder and moon clip cuts,  doesnt need to be shipped off for anything.

[gargoil66]

15 hours ago, Joe4d said:

were the older 608's cut for moons ? on an 8 shot pretty much a deal breaker, the ports you could get around in ICORE in open,,I guess not in USPSA,, but realistically, if you are the only revolver guy there would it matter ?  See what the street price is, but if its 800-900 be worth trying.. with the chamfer cylinder and moon clip cuts,  doesnt need to be shipped off for anything.

Joe:

 

I shot a regular 608 and can take it or leave it.  The frame felt narrow and the length made it kind of awkward.  Like a car whose wheel base is not wide enough for its length.  Trigger was not particularly nice but not horrible, either.  It had some ports at the end of the barrel for some reason.  They are too small to do anything in my view.  I do not think the Competition model has them. 

 

When I can find a Competition model and am able to handle it, I will decide.  Aside from it being "legal" in competition, trigger pull and balance first, then see if it is cut for moon clips or if any speed loaders are available.

 

Not in any hurry but wouldn't mind being able to handle one within a couple of months.

 

GG

[Joe4d]

2 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

Joe:

 

I shot a regular 608 and can take it or leave it.  The frame felt narrow and the length made it kind of awkward.  Like a car whose wheel base is not wide enough for its length.  Trigger was not particularly nice but not horrible, either.  It had some ports at the end of the barrel for some reason.  They are too small to do anything in my view.  I do not think the Competition model has them. 

 

When I can find a Competition model and am able to handle it, I will decide.  Aside from it being "legal" in competition, trigger pull and balance first, then see if it is cut for moon clips or if any speed loaders are available.

 

Not in any hurry but wouldn't mind being able to handle one within a couple of months.

 

GG

humm well who knows,, I am all in on an Open 627 right now.. But maybe that narrow frame will work for me. For what ever reason I dont shoot the N frame as well as I do an L.  I thought it was trigger reach,, but folks have posted overlay pictures..  When I first got the N I short stroked the trigger on occassion, never did with the L,, which is why I thought it was the trigger reach.. Yeh if I run across one before moving back to the PRoVA, may try to play with it. Just  nice to see a company sponsoring, and offering product for the matches I like to shoot.

 

Edited Saturday at 02:16 PM by Joe4d

[Fishbreath]

8 hours ago, RangerMcFadden said:

Putting it in 9mm would allow for the advantage they’re claiming/striving for while, likely, preserving the mainstream marketability.

 

Caleb Giddings said exactly the opposite when I asked—Taurus feels that nobody except competitors will buy a 9mm revolver, whereas there are enough genpop shooters (his words) to make a .357 pay back the development cost.

 

I think the Super GP100 9mm pretty trivially disproves that, but I also don't have a market research team, so.

[Joe4d]

On 10/11/2024 at 5:49 AM, Makicjf said:

Do you know if s&w 357/38 clips fit it?

Jason

38 short colt uses same moon clips as 38 and 357.. Like them there is a a couple different sizes for brands.. I have one set of moons for starline, and another set that matches factory S&W moons I use for 38 special, 357 and 38 short colt Remington and Magtec brass.. I order the starline clips in stainless, and the others  blue, makes keeping them seperate easier. I also only load the Rems and Magtecs in 7 shoot moons for my 686.. Again makes keeping things seprate easier

 

[Joe4d]

25 minutes ago, Fishbreath said:

 

Caleb Giddings said exactly the opposite when I asked—Taurus feels that nobody except competitors will buy a 9mm revolver, whereas there are enough genpop shooters (his words) to make a .357 pay back the development cost.

 

I think the Super GP100 9mm pretty trivially disproves that, but I also don't have a market research team, so.

well considering there basically are no 9mm revolvers,, there are guns with 9mm like chambers that headspace off the rim, and require not standard bullets and loading techniques. I mean if I was a gun MFG CEO and someone came to me with,,
Hey lets make this gun a couple dozen competitive shooters want,, but almost no factory made ammo exists that will work in it.,, That someone would be looking for a job

[mchapman]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

38 short colt uses same moon clips as 38 and 357.. Like them there is a a couple different sizes for brands.. I have one set of moons for starline, and another set that matches factory S&W moons I use for 38 special, 357 and 38 short colt Remington and Magtec brass.. I order the starline clips in stainless, and the others  blue, makes keeping them seperate easier. I also only load the Rems and Magtecs in 7 shoot moons for my 686.. Again makes keeping things seprate easier

 

I think that Jason was asking if the 627 moonclips will fit in the Taurus 608 comp model.

[Makicjf]

39 minutes ago, mchapman said:

I think that Jason was asking if the 627 moonclips will fit in the Taurus 608 comp model.

Yes sir . That was my question. I have 2200+ 38 shorts loaded and mooned. I'm not interested in an 8 shot moon clip gun that doesn't use 627 clips.

 Jason

[Joe4d]

14 hours ago, Makicjf said:

Yes sir . That was my question. I have 2200+ 38 shorts loaded and mooned. I'm not interested in an 8 shot moon clip gun that doesn't use 627 clips.

 Jason

If I had to guess ,,, no.   TK custom lists different parts for 608 moons than S&W 627's...  Although that could be because TK custom was cutting the 608 cylinders.. If it could be made to work. I would assume they would cut the cylinder to use the same moons.
Also they list a different loading tool/ mandrel for the Smith and the Taurus.. So I am thinking the internal hole is different as well.
Another issue, doesnt seem any of the Taurus guns of other calibers with same caliber and capacity use the same moons as their Smith counter part.

[Makicjf]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

If I had to guess ,,, no.   TK custom lists different parts for 608 moons than S&W 627's...  Although that could be because TK custom was cutting the 608 cylinders.. If it could be made to work. I would assume they would cut the cylinder to use the same moons.
Also they list a different loading tool/ mandrel for the Smith and the Taurus.. So I am thinking the internal hole is different as well.
Another issue, doesnt seem any of the Taurus guns of other calibers with same caliber and capacity use the same moons as their Smith counter part.

You are correct. A reply on a 608 video stated "no".

 Thanks

Jason