Freestyle Field Course or Restrictive Speed Shoot

[Braxton1]

Years ago (late 80s/early 90s), I designed a course for our State match that had two mirror-imaged arrays, each with a shooting box in front of it.  The basic premise was "Shoot two on each, run over to the other box, and shoot two on each.  Mandatory reload in between boxes.".  There were some No-Shoots interspersed in there to increase difficulty.

 

The DNROI (Amidon at the time) disapproved the stage, saying that "Movement plus No-Shoots equals a field course.  Can't be Virginia Count and can't have a mandatory reload.  Take out the movement and it'll work.".

 

I have since tried to avoid doing similar, but I can't find any references to anything like that in the Rulebook.  Does that not exist anymore (or perhaps it never did and John was going by a guideline and not a rule)?  I see the part defining Speed Shoots as "Courses of fire consisting of one continuous string of fire not exceeding 16 rounds shot on one or more arrays of multiple targets from a single location.", but does that kill mandatory reloads and Virginia Count from being options if there is movement?

 

Maybe I am trying to read too much into it....

[barry]

Used to be couldn't mandate a reload if movement was involved.  It changed in last few years. Don't ask me when, I only pay slight attention to rule changes anymore. 

[driver8M3]

Medium courses are allowed to be Virginia Count, and thus must have movement so they don't require more than 8 rounds per location/position.

[Fishbreath]

This can be a pretty thorny one, because you're not allowed to specify engagement locations outside of Level I matches.

 

"Engage T1 and T2 from Box A, perform a mandatory reload, and engage T3 and T4 from Box B" is a valid stage at a Level I under 1.1.5.1, but disallowed at a Level II or higher. You could use vision barriers to block T3 and T4 from Box A and T1 and T2 from Box B (at which point it's a short course, but you can't specify a mandatory reload), or add a second string to make it a standard exercise (where you can specify a mandatory reload and are required to score it Virginia Count or Fixed Time).

[CHA-LEE]

Stage Design, Target Array Config, and Mandated actions all need to be vetted against the current version of USPSA Rule Book.

 

Continuing to adhere to DNROI guidance from many decades ago without referencing the current USPSA Rule Book is setting yourself up for failure.

 

If you are tasked with setting up stages for your local USPSA club, do yourself a favor and read the rule book from front to back then adhere to what is defined within it. Yes that takes effort. Yes that will result in fun, challenging and legal Stage designs.

[Braxton1]

<<Continuing to adhere to DNROI guidance from many decades ago without referencing the current USPSA Rule Book is setting yourself up for failure.>>

 

Absolutely!!  I was just looking for input on how this may or may not be applicable in today's Rulebook.  When that advice was given, there were only three types of courses: Standards, Speed Shoots, and Field Courses.  Now, we have Short, Medium, and Long Courses, along with Standards and Classifiers.  

 

I prefer my rules in plain language and easily-digestible.  Because of DRL's, they have lost that touch.  

[Schutzenmeister]

Yes ... The rules were DIFFERENT 30 years ago!  However, around that time there used to be a Classifier stage that did substantially what you describe.  (I think it was Times Two.)

 

Easiest fix ... Ditch the boxes and use a couple/three walls to separate the arrays so you have to move from one side to the other to see everything.  If it's a L1 match, keep it to 16 rounds or less (due to the assumption of only two shooting locations and no more than 8 rounds per location or view) and you may specify a reload when changing from one side of the wall to the other.

 

Otherwise you'll need to make it somehow comply with the rules for a Standards course.

[CHA-LEE]

Braxton1,

 

Maybe take a different look at stage design vs the foundation of what USPSA stages should be, which is "Freestyle". Freestyle means that the competitor is given the opportunity to figure out the shooting & movement challenge however they see fit. Figuring out how you are going to shoot a stage is a significant differentiator vs other shooting sports like IDPA. As others have said, use props and target position to achieve your movement goal for a stage. Forcing people to do reloads on normal stages is a waste as we already have a boatload of Classifier style stages which do EXACTLY that. If you want to test competitors reloading skills, increase the round count of the stage, or simply pick an existing Classifier stage that mandates a reload.

 

I never understood why USPSA stage designers what to remanufacture what already exists within the Classifier Stages. I also don't understand why stage designers want to mandate shooting/movement/gun handling tasks on a USPSA stage. If you like mandating exactly what the competitor can or can't do, then setup stages for IDPA matches.  IDPA is the opposite of "Freestyle".

[RJH]

1 minute ago, CHA-LEE said:

Braxton1,

 

Maybe take a different look at stage design vs the foundation of what USPSA stages should be, which is "Freestyle". Freestyle means that the competitor is given the opportunity to figure out the shooting & movement challenge however they see fit. Figuring out how you are going to shoot a stage is a significant differentiator vs other shooting sports like IDPA. As others have said, use props and target position to achieve your movement goal for a stage. Forcing people to do reloads on normal stages is a waste as we already have a boatload of Classifier style stages which do EXACTLY that. If you want to test competitors reloading skills, increase the round count of the stage, or simply pick an existing Classifier stage that mandates a reload.

 

I never understood why USPSA stage designers what to remanufacture what already exists within the Classifier Stages. I also don't understand why stage designers want to mandate shooting/movement/gun handling tasks on a USPSA stage. If you like mandating exactly what the competitor can or can't do, then setup stages for IDPA matches.  IDPA is the opposite of "Freestyle".

 

 

This, so much this 

[Joe4d]

You could also do an unloaded start..
Start position: Heels on X, hands above shoulders, gun holstered and UNLOADED.

Now you can have a COF where everyone loads once. hah that would be interesting.. Most unloaded starts are table starts.

 

[Braxton1]

20 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Braxton1,

 

Maybe take a different look at stage design vs the foundation of what USPSA stages should be, which is "Freestyle".

 

I am, by admission, not a strong stage design kind-of-guy.  I see some marksmanship skills that I'd like to evaluate and then try to build a course around that test.  I really like how you put this, Cha-Lee!

 

[perttime]

13 hours ago, Braxton1 said:

 

I am, by admission, not a strong stage design kind-of-guy.  I see some marksmanship skills that I'd like to evaluate and then try to build a course around that test.  I really like how you put this, Cha-Lee!

 

 

Using walls to make the competitor move is much cooler than stipulating it. It is a little more work, though. Even better if the competitor has at least some options for how to break down a stage.

 

Here's a quick one from our upcoming club IPSC Match: