.38 Long Colt Die Setup

[4n2t0]

Sorry, the search on this site still seems to be broken. I couldn't even find the information querying the forum externally (site: www.brianenos.com long+colt).

 

Will standard .38/.357 Dillon dies, on a Dillon 650, seat and crimp .38 long colt? Or will I need 9mm seat and crimp dies? I have both, but I'd prefer not to have to constantly swap dies around.

Edited April 3 by 4n2t0

[4n2t0]

Maybe I asked this in the wrong section? If the mods think it better, maybe this should get moved to one of the revolver sections?

[MoNsTeR]

Seems like they should work, 38 LC is only 0.125" shorter. But, I do see that Lee has different sizer SKUs:

357 Mag: 90530

38 Special: 90964

38 Long Colt: 91207

38 Short Colt: 91207

 

I just happen to know where Lee keeps these, but you can probably find it for Dillon too...

[Squirrel45]

Decap/size 38/357 

Seat: 38/357

Crimp: I use a 9mm taper for shorts. However the long might be long enough to use the above dies. 

[Joe4d]

I think you will need a 38 super seat/ crimp..

[FDk08]

I shoot target level loads in my 38 Long Colt revolvers and have done so for years. I use std. 38spl cases, Std primer, 3 gr W231 and a 158 gr wadcutter makes for a very light load.

[4n2t0]

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm waiting for a trimmer to arrive so I can chop my specials to long colt. I'll start with the .38/.357 dies and see if they'll reach. I'll be loading a coated 158gr SWC.

 

I'll update this thread sometime next week with my results (or lack thereof).

Edited April 4 by 4n2t0

[Joe4d]

ok now i gotta ask why ?  If you have an old long colt revolver it would take short ammo that is readily available.
If its for matches using a SWC defeats the purpose of the shorter case as far as reload speed.  Ad if you just want target ammo,, why not just load it in 38 ?
Oh and you will probably end up swaging the lead or bulging the brass if you cut down 38's... many get a bit thicker as you go down.

[4n2t0]

It's a good question Joe4d. None of the above, lol.

 

I'll be shooting these through a S&W 66 in a non-competitive setting (plinking fun, plate rack, steel etc.). I want cleaner ejection. The special cases get stuck near the frame. I'm only going to make up 50 or so, from useless Hornady FTX cases, to see if it works out. If not, I might stay with specials or give mid colt/short colt with a RN bullet a try.

 

P.S. I'm middle-aged, childless, and single. What else am I going to do with my time?

Edited April 4 by 4n2t0

[Joe4d]

in that case why would you want cleaner ejection,, now you gotta bend over and pick em all up..
 

[4n2t0]

5 hours ago, Joe4d said:

in that case why would you want cleaner ejection,, now you gotta bend over and pick em all up..
 

 

So true...

[ysrracer]

I shoot .38 Short Colt loaded to 9mm specs in all my .38 Special / .357 guns.

 

So far so good

[ysrracer]

Oh, just an fyi. If you're loading for a modern .357 gun, 9mm load data is a good starting place for .38 Short Colt.

 

DO NOT USE 9mm LOAD DATA IN OLD .38 SHORT COLT GUNS.

[Dr. Phil]

15 hours ago, Joe4d said:

ok now i gotta ask why ?  If you have an old long colt revolver it would take short ammo that is readily available.
If its for matches using a SWC defeats the purpose of the shorter case as far as reload speed.  Ad if you just want target ammo,, why not just load it in 38 ?
Oh and you will probably end up swaging the lead or bulging the brass if you cut down 38's... many get a bit thicker as you go down.

My 38 Mid loads are @ .900.

Why?

Why not?

I cut down 2K with a trimmer cutter on a drill. Cut to .925 and power trimmed them to .900 on the trimmer. 

Those cases do get thicker as you cut toward the rim. I could never get under about .850.

I was trying for 38 Super length so i could use that data. They shoot great and 2K will last almost forever using moon clips. (Which I realize the O.P. doesn't use)

Never quite got how some whining is always posted about certain kinds of experimentation. But never toward the "big name" people who have experimented with everything under the sun! That is where a lot of discoveries have been made and always will.

O.P. shoot what you want! Have fun! Experiment!

When you think about reloading Blazer aluminum cases, just ask. I got that covered too!

Oh and BTW, I use a standard .357 sizing die, a cut down powder through flare die and a 9mm Lee FC die. My 38 loads are all taper crimped because some of my coated bullets don't have grooves. My magnum loads are roll crimped.

Edited April 4 by Dr. Phil

[4n2t0]

Thanks for the words of encouragement and info Dr. Phil, I really appreciate it. 

 

I'll let you guys know how it goes sometime next week. 

 

Cheers!

[4n2t0]

Ok, will it blend?! YES!!!

 

Dillon .38/.357 dies, on a Dillon 650, will fully seat and crimp .38 Long Colt. I trimmed .38 Special brass to 1.03 and loaded a dummy round using a 158gr SWC seated and crimped to the groove. The seating die still had quite a few turns left available to it, but the crimp die is right at its limit (ring on top and without any modification). I probably couldn't get a "strong crimp" but I don't need or want one. The crimp measured at .377 and that's plenty strong enough for me. I'm basically using the roll crimp die to just de-flare the case mouth. I won't be able to load some real rounds until my press gets fixed (I just received some alignment tools from Dillon today). As to why, which was rightly asked by Joe4d. For me, it will hopefully provide easier ejection, powder conservation, and I can repurpose .38 Special cases which have cracked at the case mouth.

 

Left: .38 Long Colt, Right: .38 Special

 

Left: Crimp die setting, Right: Seating die setting

Edited April 20 by 4n2t0

[Farmer]

Looking good! I like your idea of making those old cracked cases work. 

[Squirrel45]

If you want more crimp, thread the lock ring under the head. 

[ysrracer]

4 hours ago, Squirrel45 said:

If you want more crimp, thread the lock ring under the head. 

 

Or use a 9mm crimp die.

[MoNsTeR]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:54 AM, ysrracer said:

I shoot .38 Short Colt loaded to 9mm specs in all my .38 Special / .357 guns.

 

So far so good

Is it safe to do much of this in a K-frame? 9mm is 35k PSI... Seems like it would be fine in an L- or N-frame.

[ysrracer]

9 hours ago, MoNsTeR said:

Is it safe to do much of this in a K-frame? 9mm is 35k PSI... Seems like it would be fine in an L- or N-frame.

 

I shoot them in .357 guns, I wouldn't in .38 Special only guns.

[Joe4d]

21 hours ago, MoNsTeR said:

Is it safe to do much of this in a K-frame? 9mm is 35k PSI... Seems like it would be fine in an L- or N-frame.

while sorta 9mm specs, unless you are using a really super fast powder, probably not close to max 9mm pressure.. Keep in mind, folks are only loading these to 120-130 pf,, Where typical 9mm factory ammo is loaded a bit higher.  Each their own,, I use a bit slower powder than some though for my short colt. I wouldnt use Clays,, but thats me.

[MoNsTeR]

5 hours ago, Joe4d said:

while sorta 9mm specs, unless you are using a really super fast powder, probably not close to max 9mm pressure.. Keep in mind, folks are only loading these to 120-130 pf,, Where typical 9mm factory ammo is loaded a bit higher.  Each their own,, I use a bit slower powder than some though for my short colt. I wouldnt use Clays,, but thats me.

My usual 9mm load uses N310 so yeah you're definitely describing me

 

I certainly have other powders though. It seems worth trying a Short Colt load if I could get to around 110-125PF while staying under, say, 25k PSI. Of course it's hard to know if that's happening!

[Joe4d]

2 hours ago, MoNsTeR said:

My usual 9mm load uses N310 so yeah you're definitely describing me

 

I certainly have other powders though. It seems worth trying a Short Colt load if I could get to around 110-125PF while staying under, say, 25k PSI. Of course it's hard to know if that's happening!

yeh when I started loading short colt I looked at the pressures listed in some of the manuals,,  yeh I wouldnt do 310 ,,   I went with Accurate #2.. alot more comfortable with the book pressures,, I load 147's Bayou coated bullets at 125 in a 4" 627