Occasional Half Cock When Shooting Fast

[Racinready300ex]

51 minutes ago, yigal said:

When a leaf spring is calibrated to a small force, there will be less pressure on the sear  and it will not be able to respond as quickly as a spring, which operates at full force. Therefore, it is expected that the gun will fire bursts or hammer falls.

These springs have almost  no wear . Just fatigue of the material over time. Just fold it back a little and everything returns as it was.

 

It sub 2 lbs triggers are lasting 80k rounds without adjusting the spring, I'm not to worried about it either way. Generally I don't go under 2 anyway. 

 

I've handled sub 1 lbs triggers, but I really don't see the point in that. 

[shred]

Brian's talked about getting a full season or more out of one of his 16-oz trigger job on his 2011s in the way back (which is probably more than 50K rounds), but I agree about somewhat heavier being better for me anyway.

 

[yigal]

7 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

It sub 2 lbs triggers are lasting 80k rounds without adjusting the spring, I'm not to worried about it either way. Generally I don't go under 2 anyway. 

 

I've handled sub 1 lbs triggers, but I really don't see the point in that. 

It also depends on the work on sear /hammer hooks  for  trigger job . Some guns will hold it and some will not.

[Racinready300ex]

13 minutes ago, shred said:

Brian's talked about getting a full season or more out of one of his 16-oz trigger job on his 2011s in the way back (which is probably more than 50K rounds), but I agree about somewhat heavier being better for me anyway.

 

 

I remember seeing mention somewhere of a infinity open shooter running around a 1 lbs or under and replacing the trigger parts after some number of rounds that seemed like to much trouble to me. 50k doesn't seem to bad, that's a few years for me. 

 

I spoke to a guy recently at a club match that was running a 10 oz trigger. I handled it at the safe table, pretty sick for sure. Impressive he could do that. I didn't even think to ask him how long it would stay in spec like that. If I see him again I'll ask just because I'm curious. 

[shred]

TGO runs very light triggers FWIW.  He was annoyed when at a long-ago IPSC equipment-check the RO dropped the slide by accident, possibly beating up the hammer-sear a microscopic amount.

 

 

[yigal]

2 hours ago, shred said:

TGO runs very light triggers FWIW.  He was annoyed when at a long-ago IPSC equipment-check the RO dropped the slide by accident, possibly beating up the hammer-sear a microscopic amount.

 

 

TGO ???

if u mean TSO their trigger system different from 1911 .

Power transfer  ratio for the trigger pull in TSO  around 1 to 4 and in 1911  1 to 1

[Racinready300ex]

30 minutes ago, yigal said:

TGO ???

if u mean TSO their trigger system different from 1911 .

Power transfer  ratio for the trigger pull in TSO  around 1 to 4 and in 1911  1 to 1

 

TGO = The Great One = Rob Leatham. 

[yigal]

33 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

TGO = The Great One = Rob Leatham. 

[CHA-LEE]

Learn how to stone the sear, hammer and tune the sear spring tension. If you can do that, then it doesn’t matter how long a trigger job lasts. More importantly you will be able to resolve trigger issues yourself when they do start to happen. The extra bonus is that you will be able to setup the trigger pull weight and characteristics of the break to exactly how you like it. 

[yigal]

3 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Learn how to stone the sear, hammer and tune the sear spring tension. 

Luckily I no longer need to tune this spring.

[GunBugBit]

I think a possible issue with a Prodigy could be Cerakote in the frame’s disconnector hole, which would tend to slow the movement of the disconnector.  As those of you who own Prodigys know, Springfield isn’t very surgical about their application of Cerakote on these guns.

[392heminut]

On 2/3/2024 at 4:18 PM, GunBugBit said:

I think a possible issue with a Prodigy could be Cerakote in the frame’s disconnector hole, which would tend to slow the movement of the disconnector.  As those of you who own Prodigys know, Springfield isn’t very surgical about their application of Cerakote on these guns.

Some Prodigy's had an issue with Cerakote on the framerails (mine was one of them) but I've not heard anything about it in the disconnector hole being an issue. I had a 2011 I built on an Infinity frame Cerakoted by a friend of mine and he put that stuff on thick! He masked the slide rails so no issue there, but he didn't do any masking anywhere else and I haven't had any issues. If you think it might be an issue then a piece of 600 grit wet or dry paper wrapped around a toothpick would be sufficient to clean it out of the hole.

[392heminut]

On 2/2/2024 at 6:29 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Learn how to stone the sear, hammer and tune the sear spring tension. If you can do that, then it doesn’t matter how long a trigger job lasts. More importantly you will be able to resolve trigger issues yourself when they do start to happen. The extra bonus is that you will be able to setup the trigger pull weight and characteristics of the break to exactly how you like it. 

THAT^^^^^ right there!

[GunBugBit]

On 2/4/2024 at 5:32 PM, 392heminut said:

If you think it might be an issue then a piece of 600 grit wet or dry paper wrapped around a toothpick would be sufficient to clean it out of the hole.

I did address the disconnector hole in a similar fashion when I first got the pistol, but only a small amount.  I’ll probably do a little more polishing.

 

It could very well be that a lighter disconnector is needed.  The neck of the Extreme Race Disconnector will contact the walls of the hole very little due to the cutouts, leaving minimal surfaces touching the hole walls, thereby reducing friction.  The cutouts also reduce weight of course.

 

I received two of the Extreme discos yesterday so I’ll be trying one soon.

Edited February 7 by GunBugBit

[GunBugBit]

This picture shows what’s unique about these disconnectors.

[MikeBurgess]

I didn't read every response so this may have been mentioned already.

 

When tuning sear springs for action shooting AKA shooting fast sometimes. It is important to keep the sear and disconector legs in balance. If you have comparatively too much reset pressure having doubles and or drop to half cock can happen when shooting close targets fast. Basically having too much reset pressure on the trigger produces a forced reset when we relax our hands to shoot fast and the slide closing bumps the trigger back into our finger dropping the hammer, hard enough bump and it doubles lighter bump and drop to half cock. 

 

I have fixed this issue for a couple people myself included. In most cases the final trigger weight was lower than when the issue was happening. 

 

 

 

 

[DrewM]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:11 AM, MikeBurgess said:

I didn't read every response so this may have been mentioned already.

 

When tuning sear springs for action shooting AKA shooting fast sometimes. It is important to keep the sear and disconector legs in balance. If you have comparatively too much reset pressure having doubles and or drop to half cock can happen when shooting close targets fast. Basically having too much reset pressure on the trigger produces a forced reset when we relax our hands to shoot fast and the slide closing bumps the trigger back into our finger dropping the hammer, hard enough bump and it doubles lighter bump and drop to half cock. 

 

I have fixed this issue for a couple people myself included. In most cases the final trigger weight was lower than when the issue was happening. 

 

That's basically how I was taught as well, make both legs even weight (or so very close to the same), if you have a relatively sensitive trigger scale (most digitals), you can measure as you are building up the bottom end of the gun, as you pull the take up you can see a measurement, and then as you pull the sear you can see how it stacks on top of it.  

[xd1977]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:23 PM, DesertTortoise said:

I think Insufficient tension on the disconnector / sear spring can cause hammer follow ?

Yes!

[yigal]

On 2/7/2024 at 4:14 AM, GunBugBit said:

This picture shows what’s unique about these disconnectors.

This disco urgently needs polishing.   Which company's part? It doesn't look like casting. The part looks good quality. but unfinished.

Because of all these problems, 6 years ago I managed to perfect the trigger system of the 1911 and it works for me in both guns with the trigger weight of 550 grams in one and 650 in the other without change.

Edited February 17 by yigal

[HOGRIDER]

14 hours ago, yigal said:

This disco urgently needs polishing.   Which company's part? It doesn't look like casting. The part looks good quality. but unfinished.

Because of all these problems, 6 years ago I managed to perfect the trigger system of the 1911 and it works for me in both guns with the trigger weight of 550 grams in one and 650 in the other without change.

@yigal:

The pic offered by @GunBugBitdoes not do the EE Race Disconnector justice............

 

The contact surfaces come pre-polished:

 

https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Browse-by-Manufacturer/Extreme-Engineering/Extreme-Race-Disconnector

 

[yigal]

27 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

@yigal:

The pic offered by @GunBugBitdoes not do the EE Race Disconnector justice............

 

The contact surfaces come pre-polished:

 

https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Browse-by-Manufacturer/Extreme-Engineering/Extreme-Race-Disconnector

 

i use EE parts and like them. but it's  not  100%  drop in  set for my requirements. it needs some work for 100%

and after this it works perfect and long time.

[HOGRIDER]

20 minutes ago, yigal said:

i use EE parts and like them. but it's  not  100%  drop in  set for my requirements. it needs some work for 100%

and after this it works perfect and long time.

Same here!  None of the available "drop in kits" have ever met my personal final requirements.  But the wire EDM machining of the EE hammers, sears, and disconnectors do provide me with surfaces needing little to no stoning for final fitting.

 

IMO, for a competition 2011 LO type setup, the Brazos Pro kit has required the least amount of additional fitting/tuning if I'm recommending a "drop in" kit........

 

[GunBugBit]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:39 PM, yigal said:

This disco urgently needs polishing.   Which company's part? It doesn't look like casting. The part looks good quality. but unfinished.

Because of all these problems, 6 years ago I managed to perfect the trigger system of the 1911 and it works for me in both guns with the trigger weight of 550 grams in one and 650 in the other without change.

The picture is from a web site, not pics of my own.  They are Extreme Engineering disconnectors in the pic.  Mine looked the same until I polished.  Their statement that they pre-polish is false.

Edited February 18 by GunBugBit

[GunBugBit]

There’s an older thread, similar to this one.  Doesn’t look like the guy got resolution.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the possibility of over-cock, here or on the other thread.

[shred]

Probably because 99.9% of the time it's something else, usually in the trigger geometry that somebody has mucked with.