Is it time to add Practical Competition Shooting League to the USPSA/IDPA forums?

[vgdvc]

To the OP. Would you like to see this thread continue where more people can share their experiences and opinions of PCSL in an attempt to help grow its popularity?  Perhaps it would be best to start a new thread and title it accordingly. 

[mreed911]

3 hours ago, vgdvc said:

To the OP. Would you like to see this thread continue where more people can share their experiences and opinions of PCSL in an attempt to help grow its popularity?  Perhaps it would be best to start a new thread and title it accordingly. 

 

It can go either way.  We can use this or we can create new threads here with PCSL: in the title so there's visibility to the mods. 

[shred]

I'd start separate threads, because as it is now, there's basically one 6-month old thread that's barely at page 3.

 

[vgdvc]

1 hour ago, shred said:

I'd start separate threads, because as it is now, there's basically one 6-month old thread that's barely at page 3.

 

Sure, that may give the content more exposure. Hopefully people comment with their experiences on PCSL.

[Joe4d]

yeh, like USPSA used to be, matches kinda take on a local flavor,, but at least one stage it was pretty extreme,,looked like about a 50 yard run.  I seem to recall  one of the things that started IDPA was limiting movement distance by rule. Not sure if this is a thing or not..
More power to them if they find a market, but things like this is why I wouldnt pay much or travel much to a match without seeing the stages ahead of time. Other wise you end up at a revolver match where they want you to climb over a wall. 

[shred]

That is some of the growing up PCSL has to do IMO.  Right now it's trying to be all things to all people, MD can do whatever they want and that usually doesn't end or scale well.

 

[mreed911]

SIG Academy is doing a PCSL-based match in Florida - just posted to Match Announcements (in USPSA/IPSC since it's "hit-factor" related).  There wasn't a better forum to put it in.

[leam]

I'm just starting to look at PCSL; no opinion yet, just interest. I've yet to get a PCC or similar, and might use this as an excuse. 

 

Hmm...neat. Just skipped over to the rules, and the PCC is in lieu of a handgun. For the 2 Gun, you can go from 5.45x39 to 7.62x51.

Edited March 8 by leam

[Joe4d]

looked at next match.. not sure why they even need guns,,,  wear shorts and track shoes and yell bang bang every now and then.

[-JCN-]

The more complicated PCSL gets, the less interested I am in it. 

[leam]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

looked at next match.. not sure why they even need guns,,,  wear shorts and track shoes and yell bang bang every now and then.

Yeah, I've seen some odd stages in other sports. At one, you were down range, and the expectation was that you were going to job backwards and engage left and right. I guess they didn't care that the entire bay was slick mud, and that they were begging for a bad accident.

 

It really depends on the local range staff, doesn't it? You could do the same "run, run, pew once, run, run" thing in USPSA, and maybe IDPA too. That's one reason I started shooting steel, much less movement.

[leam]

1 hour ago, -JCN- said:

The more complicated PCSL gets, the less interested I am in it. 

The rules don't look too complicated, but they do seem to be written for quick reference and clarity. No matter what I think of the USPSA rules, the rulebook was laid out well and written well. Much better than I could do, and for the most part they withstood much of the gamer-isms people tried to come up with. Not all of it, of course; gamers never seem to give up trying to find a loophole.

[mreed911]

1 hour ago, leam said:

At one, you were down range, and the expectation was that you were going to job backwards and engage left and right.

 

Oh, you shot Space City this year too?

[-JCN-]

1 hour ago, leam said:

The rules don't look too complicated, but they do seem to be written for quick reference and clarity. No matter what I think of the USPSA rules, the rulebook was laid out well and written well. Much better than I could do, and for the most part they withstood much of the gamer-isms people tried to come up with. Not all of it, of course; gamers never seem to give up trying to find a loophole.

 

They don't... but they're getting more and more complicated. There was a FB video of Max talking about membership fees and club fees and classifiers and match performance and changing division rules.

 

Even if it's not USPSA level yet, it's heading that way... and I don't know that I want to spend a lot of time and effort on something that's turning into basically what I can get from USPSA. It's not perfect, but it's established and that counts for a lot (to me).

 

[leam]

8 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

Oh, you shot Space City this year too?

No, this was a few years ago in SC. Since the WSB had the start position, and as jogging backwards is something I'm not safe doing even without a firearm, my plan was to turn around, run to the back of the stage, face down range, and then draw. I had to leave early, though, and missed all the "fun".

[leam]

8 hours ago, -JCN- said:

 

They don't... but they're getting more and more complicated. There was a FB video of Max talking about membership fees and club fees and classifiers and match performance and changing division rules.

 

Even if it's not USPSA level yet, it's heading that way... and I don't know that I want to spend a lot of time and effort on something that's turning into basically what I can get from USPSA. It's not perfect, but it's established and that counts for a lot (to me).

 

 

Understood. A lot of people seem to want classifications and classifiers, and that takes organization and funding. If I understand correctly, so far a person/club can choose to participate in the system-to-be or not. The rules are currently less complex, and explicitly state that the local clubs can alter them as needed.

 

USPSA does the rules and classification stuff well, and sets a high standard for a shooting sport. I was a memeber for several years, and usually the guy that made everyone else look blazingly fast. My contribution was helping on stages, and I dutifully revalidated my RO/CRO cert each year.

 

When the BoD kicked out YML for nothing, and thier own behavior seems questionable, I had to decide if this was the sort of organization I wanted to represent. It isn't, and I left. That's why I'm happy to look at PCSL as an option. Others have their own reasons, and none of us should disparage those who remain in USPSA. We all have a choice.

[-JCN-]

22 minutes ago, leam said:

 

Understood. A lot of people seem to want classifications and classifiers, and that takes organization and funding. If I understand correctly, so far a person/club can choose to participate in the system-to-be or not. The rules are currently less complex, and explicitly state that the local clubs can alter them as needed.

 

USPSA does the rules and classification stuff well, and sets a high standard for a shooting sport. I was a memeber for several years, and usually the guy that made everyone else look blazingly fast. My contribution was helping on stages, and I dutifully revalidated my RO/CRO cert each year.

 

When the BoD kicked out YML for nothing, and thier own behavior seems questionable, I had to decide if this was the sort of organization I wanted to represent. It isn't, and I left. That's why I'm happy to look at PCSL as an option. Others have their own reasons, and none of us should disparage those who remain in USPSA. We all have a choice.

 

Agree, but my concern is that it’s like a lot of start ups that start lean but over years add bloat. What’s to say that won’t happen as PCSL ages and matures. To me it’s already drifting that way.

 

It’s a big gamble to me to try and guess what that sport is going to be like in 10 years and I don’t feel like being a beta tester at this point in my life.

 

Re: USPSA, at its worst it had a number of BOD members that seemed driven by motives other than the best interest of the members and the sport.

 

Since the initial YML ousting, I think 3 of those board members have resigned from external pressure and been replaced by those looking to make changes for the better and serve the membership.

 

So as of now, the BOD has a new composition and only 1.5 legacy board members remain with YML reinstated and 4+ BOD members looking to move forward.

 

To me, I’m very optimistic with how the leadership will go for USPSA and I always liked the structure.

 

Locally, we had considered doing PCSL when it was simple but instead of changing over to PCSL this year, opted to run basically USPSA outlaw matches instead.

 

I like the PCSL 2-gun ruleset though.

[truespode]

I shoot both. I'm a Life member with USPSA but really enjoy PCSL. I like the K zone and LOVE the action steel stages.

 

I will be a member of PCSL when membership becomes available.

 

I don't see it as an either or type of thing. 

[-JCN-]

4 minutes ago, truespode said:

I shoot both. I'm a Life member with USPSA but really enjoy PCSL. I like the K zone and LOVE the action steel stages.

 

I will be a member of PCSL when membership becomes available.

 

I don't see it as an either or type of thing. 

 

I think that's a great approach.

[shred]

The first IPSC rulebook was 3 or 4 pages too...

 

As the RMIs are fond of saying "every rule in there came from someone doing something"

 

[leam]

4 hours ago, -JCN- said:

Since the initial YML ousting, I think 3 of those board members have resigned from external pressure and been replaced by those looking to make changes for the better and serve the membership.

 

So as of now, the BOD has a new composition and only 1.5 legacy board members remain with YML reinstated and 4+ BOD members looking to move forward.

 

Ha! At my age, I'll croak off before things get too bad. 

 

However, I could use your help. I'm out of the loop on the USPSA stuff, I didn't know YML was back and the board was changing. Can you point me to intel on that? If the change is there, I'll have to rethink my decision.

 

Thanks!

[-JCN-]

2 hours ago, leam said:

 

Ha! At my age, I'll croak off before things get too bad. 

 

However, I could use your help. I'm out of the loop on the USPSA stuff, I didn't know YML was back and the board was changing. Can you point me to intel on that? If the change is there, I'll have to rethink my decision.

 

Thanks!

Yes, that’s part of my calculus too. I probably only have 5 years of competitive shooting left so I can’t wait to gamble on a sport that may or may not mature. 
 

YML is President with Ben Berry and Frank as very positive new changes. 
 

Bruce and Mel resigned and Rick Steele I think too. 
 

Arnburg was great but he was witch hunted out. A really good guy got voted in to replace him but it’s still to be seen if Arnburg gets back on due to legal processes. 
 

So really it’s mainly Leighton by himself remaining from the group that banned Stoeger and were the legacy cronies. 
 

I can try and dig up some chatter and maybe others can help point out the relevant players. 

[leam]

1 hour ago, -JCN- said:

I can try and dig up some chatter and maybe others can help point out the relevant players. 

 This seems to answer my main question:   https://uspsa.org/announcement/854   YML is back as President. I'll take your word on the rest, and put some hope into it. Thank you!

[RJH]

6 minutes ago, leam said:

 This seems to answer my main question:   https://uspsa.org/announcement/854   YML is back as President. I'll take your word on the rest, and put some hope into it. Thank you!

 

Look up Ben Berry's podcast on YouTube. Lots of info there. He is a new board member