Limited Optics

[Johnny_Chimpo]

9 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

The popularity of RDS on carry/duty guns, isn't because they're an improvement over irons.  They're popular because they allow the low effort shooter to compete/perform at a competent level with minimal time and training commitment.  That's true for USPSA, LEOs, and pretty much everyone. 

 

Nobody who has transitioned from irons to a slide ride dot will ever agree with that, and anyone whose gone through that transition knows what you said is pure BS

 

LOL

[RJH]

15 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I don't need to I have strong hands so DA is not a problem

 

So you're saying there's no difference in double action single action versus Sao. Glad you can finally own up to that

16 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Except Prodigies are a s#!tfest of guns that choke and Shadows just run

 

How many prodigies have you shot so far? Mine's been good to this point, though it could crap out tomorrow it is a gun. If it does I'll just send it back to Springfield, then I'll feel just like the people with high end guns when they send them back to atlas to get fixed

[ltdmstr]

1 minute ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Plenty of vids on youtube of these guns choking.  Are they all?  Of course not.  But other types of pistols do not do this out of the box.

 

Nobody should have to get their pistol sorted.  Anyone that willingly signs up for that shouldn't expect many to agree.  That dog don't hunt and is why many avoid 1911s and 2011s altogether.  I sure did.

 

Oh yeah.  By the guys who like to air rack their slides and that kinda thing.  Most of those people are worse than gun writers and probably know less about 1911s/2011s than the average person here.  As for sorting new guns, I've seen brand new guns from just about every top shelf company that had minor issues that needed to be addressed.  Most are not a big deal, and nothing to cry about. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

14 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

Same goes for 9mm use and minor pf. 

 

Same what?  You get major scoring as a "reward".

[motosapiens]

2 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Nobody who has transitioned from irons to a slide ride dot will ever agree with that, and anyone whose gone through that transition knows what you said is pure BS

 

LOL

i kind of agree with him. one of the things i like about dots is I need a LOT less live fire, and I can get much more improvement out of my dryfire.

[ltdmstr]

Just now, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Same what?  You get major scoring as a "reward".

 

Exactly.  Last I knew it was one of the tenents of the sport.  I guess that doesn't matter to a lot of people.  But, I'm sure shooting minor pf with a dot is attractive to the low buy-in crowd.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

Just now, motosapiens said:

i kind of agree with him. one of the things i like about dots is I need a LOT less live fire, and I can get much more improvement out of my dryfire.

 

That's not what I think he meant by low effort shooters.  Low effort shooters try a dot and give up because "I can't find the dot" or are slow as f*#k because they try to use them like irons.

[ltdmstr]

6 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Nobody who has transitioned from irons to a slide ride dot will ever agree with that, and anyone whose gone through that transition knows what you said is pure BS

 

LOL

 

Well, I have a prodigy, and I can say that from personal experience.  Sorry if it was difficult for you to make the transition.

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 minute ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Exactly.  Last I knew it was one of the tenents of the sport.  I guess that doesn't matter to a lot of people.  But, I'm sure shooting minor pf with a dot is attractive to the low buy-in crowd.

 

One of the outdated tenets of the sport.  A leftover from when forensic ballistics was either non existent or in its infancy.

 

Ain't ever heard someone say "I'd rather get shot with a 9 minor load than with a 40 major"

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

Yeah, there's a few people shooting budget el cheapo guns in limited already. But the overwhelming majority of serious limited competitors are shooting high end 2011's, and everyone else is at a disadvantage. that will be the case in any division where 2011's are allowed.

 

Let's get completely honest, there are about 10 people in the country who are capable of winning Nationals at any given moment. Everybody else is just playing for 11th place on down, and in reality the biggest majority of people are midpack nobody's LOL. 

 

CZ makes Sao guns that can compete right alongside 2011s. And even if the majority of high-end shooters shoot 2011's, or 1911s, it's been shown time and again that low rent guns can compete with and even beat some of the best shooters in the world that are using Sao guns. But I'm not going to rehash all that for the 900th time with you

[Zachjet]

I feel like only the 5 inch guns were really having problems. 
But even if all of them were having issues they will eventually work them out and people will buy. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

3 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Well, I have a prodigy, and I can say that from personal experience.  Sorry if it was difficult for you to make the transition.

 

 

Transition to what, optics?

 

Shoot CO in the Michigan sectional and let's compare scores.  Since I'm a low effort shooter, should be easy.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[motosapiens]

2 minutes ago, RJH said:

And even if the majority of high-end shooters shoot 2011's, or 1911s, it's been shown time and again that low rent guns can compete with and even beat some of the best shooters in the world that are using Sao guns. But I'm not going to rehash all that for the 900th time with you

sure, a top pro may be good enough to make up the disadvantage, and if he's paid enough, may choose to do so... but it's still a disadvantage... that's why everyone who is NOT paid to be disadvantaged shoots 2011's in every division where they are allowed. That is an easily observable fact, and the obvious corollary is that allowing 2011's in any other division will cause them to be the totally dominant gun there too. If that's what you want, that's fine.... own it. but don't pretend it won't happen, because it will.

Edited December 29, 2022 by motosapiens

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

 

 

Ain't ever heard someone say "I'd rather get shot with a 9 minor load than with a 40 major"

 

 

As a guy who has shot animals with both, I would 100% take getting shot with a nine minor over a 40 major if I had no other options. But I'm not sure what this has to do with the subject at hand LOL

[Johnny_Chimpo]

Just now, RJH said:

 

 

As a guy who has shot animals with both, I would 100% take getting shot with a nine minor over a 40 major if I had no other options. But I'm not sure what this has to do with the subject at hand LOL

 

Just responding to a non-sequitur

[ltdmstr]

1 minute ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

One of the outdated tenets of the sport.  A leftover from when forensic ballistics was either non existent or in its infancy.

 

Ain't ever heard someone say "I'd rather get shot with a 9 minor load than with a 40 major"

 

Ok, so for the three factors the sport was built on, we'll just delete one and pretend it doesn't matter.  If that's how you feel about it, that's fine.  But that's a pretty fundamental change.  And really makes for a different sport altogether.

 

And to answer your question, on 9 minor vs 40 major, yes. If I had to pick, it's not even a close call. 

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

sure, a top pro may be good enough to make up the disadvantage, and if he's paid enough, may choose to do so... but it's still a disadvantage... that's why everyone who is NOT paid to be disadvantaged shoots 2011's in every division where they are allowed.

 

The problem with disregarding the fact that low rent guns can keep up with 2011's is that those top pros are still beating top pros. It's not like they're beating a bunch of midpack nobody's. And it's happened multiple times. And then there's people like Bob Vogel who's going to shoot a Glock no matter what, and he's going to beat pretty much everybody when he does it. Hell, I remember Vogel won a pro am with a Glock  over Eric grauffel 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 minute ago, ltdmstr said:

And to answer your question, on 9 minor vs 40 major, yes. If I had to pick, it's not even a close call. 

 

LOL guys who say that are hilarious.

[ltdmstr]

7 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Transition to what, optics?

 

Shoot CO in the Michigan sectional and let's compare scores.  Since I'm a low effort shooter, should be easy.

 

I really don't care about your scores, and am not sure how that's relevant to the discussion.  I may try Limited Optics just for the hell of it.  Not sure how much better or worse I'll do as compared to irons and major pf, but I'm pretty sure it'll be pretty close.

[ltdmstr]

5 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

LOL guys who say that are hilarious.

 

Maybe ask the guys who've been shot with 9mm ball ammo and see what they say.  One gang banger on video had about a half a dozen holes in his midsection and lived to talk about it.  Even said it was no big deal.  Don't think he'd be around saying that if he got shot with major pf ammo, whether 9, 40 or something else.  But, you're the one that asked the stupid question that has zero relevance to the discussion.

[Zachjet]

John wick took a few and it looked like it didn’t phase him….

[Dazhi]

48 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Thanks for sharing @Dazhi.

 

Have you done any comparisons with dots?

 

 

No, I did not have access to a Titan with RDS at that time. 

[ltdmstr]

Did anyone see how long the survey, comment period is open and when they'll vote on the changes?

Edited December 29, 2022 by ltdmstr

[ltdmstr]

8 minutes ago, Zachjet said:

John wick took a few and it looked like it didn’t phase him….

 

He'd probably do well in carry optics.

[Zachjet]

Just now, ltdmstr said:

 

He'd probably do well in carry optics.

I feel hes a magwell guy 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Zachjet