Fitting Power Custom oversized hand and cylinder stop

[Couch-Commando]

Hi folks,

 

I discovered my recently acquired Smith and Wesson revolver had a cylinder stop that was a little loose, and also discovered the timing was a little slow. When pulling the trigger with my palm against the cylinder, the hammer would drop before full lock up. I decided to attempt to fit an oversized hand and cylinder stop. Part of this is also a project to determine if I have the mechanical inclination to buy old, beat up, out of time guns and cheaply fix them up on my own.

 

So far I have ruined my oversized cylinder stop due to a dumb mistake, but have almost successfully fit my hand. I have watched youtube videos, read a bunch on this forum and others, and have read the relevant pages of the Kuhnhausen manual several times. I still have some questions.

 

Since I don't really know what I'm doing, I have decided NOT to file the hand window, stop window or the ratchets, even if that is what is called for, since these parts are much harder to replace than hands and stops.  

 

For the hand, I had to file a LOT. It was wider and considerably longer than necessary. I have it fit width wise so that it perfectly fits the channel and the window. It is not binding in this dimension. I also had to file a considerable amount to shorten the hand to fit, and I had to file a much larger bevel on the top left (from the rear) than I expected to prevent it from binding on the ratchet in the last part of the trigger pull.

 

I am now at a point where the trigger functions and the cylinder is in time, but is not universally smooth. On two charge holes, it is perfectly smooth, and the cylinder wiggles slightly, almost imperceptibly, when holding the trigger to the rear. On four charge holes, it is mostly smooth, and does fully locked up with the trigger pulled. On two charge holes, it is smooth if I pull the trigger without much force, but if I exert force on the last tiny bit of trigger pull, the hand binds on the ratchet. On these two charge holes, with the trigger fully pulled to the rear, the hand is pushing the cylinder slightly out of alignment to the left (view from rear). Keep in mind I still have the original stop in place, which allows this extra movement.

 

My first question is, is the hand supposed to play a role in locking the cylinder? The old hand certainly didn't. If it is, I'm now at a point where if I continue to file to get it to fit the tightest two ratchets, it will loosen on the rest. Should I stone this to the point that it allows more cylinder wiggle on the looser ratchets, and doesn't push the tighter ratchets excessively? I'm nervous because it is so close, that any excessive filing will ruin the part.

 

On the cylinder stop, the mistake I made was narrowing it too much because it was sticking in the stop window. I failed to realize I needed to file a different surface to prevent it from dropping too low to pop it out of the window when the trigger is pulled. I'm a little unsure of which surface needs to be filed to prevent this. On initial fit, the trigger would bind on the trigger pickup surface. I filed the bevel in a downwards direction, which I believe was a mistake. I think I needed to change the sharpness of the bevel instead. The language of the Kuhnhausen manual is a bit confusing on this aspect.

[Toolguy]

I could write a book about this, but it would be way better to schedule a time to come to the shop where I can show you how it all works. Bring a new hand and stop. Yes, you can buy old guns and cheaply fix them on your own, armed with the knowledge of what to do. Plus, you can always call if you have a question.

[Couch-Commando]

Well, I just destroyed my hand too...

 

The issue appears to be that I have two cylinders with ratchets that are tighter than the other four. Attempting to fit to the tightest one resulted in the loosest one being out of time.

 

I would love the opportunity to learn how to fit this stuff together correctly. I also have the time to do so for the next month or two. Should I order another set of power custom parts (hand and cylinder stop) or would you recommend something else? I do need to order another hand and cylinder stop first.

[ysrracer]

Is there a YouTube video out there showing you how to do this?

 

I learned brain surgery on YouTube, so far so goody.

[Toolguy]

Get more Power Custom parts. They are top quality. Then bring everything over and I will help you git er done.

[pskys2]

10 hours ago, Couch-Commando said:

Well, I just destroyed my hand too...

 

The issue appears to be that I have two cylinders with ratchets that are tighter than the other four. Attempting to fit to the tightest one resulted in the loosest one being out of time.

 

I would love the opportunity to learn how to fit this stuff together correctly. I also have the time to do so for the next month or two. Should I order another set of power custom parts (hand and cylinder stop) or would you recommend something else? I do need to order another hand and cylinder stop first.

You can get new extractor stars too, had to replace the one on my 625.  Note chamfer it before you fit the ratchet notches though.

[Tampa-XD45]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, Toolguy said:

I could write a book about this, but it would be way better to schedule a time to come to the shop where I can show you how it all works. Bring a new hand and stop. Yes, you can buy old guns and cheaply fix them on your own, armed with the knowledge of what to do. Plus, you can always call if you have a question.

How about doing a YouTube video the next time you fit one?

[ysrracer]

Am I the only guy that takes their guns to a qualified gunsmith?

[mchapman]

21 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

Am I the only guy that takes their guns to a qualified gunsmith?

I thought that you used a tractor mechanic.lol

[Couch-Commando]

ysrracer, I personally get a very intense feeling of satisfaction when I am able to make something work. My idea of a fun Friday night, aside from shooting stuff, is to take something apart and put it back together again. How guns work has always fascinated me. Unfortunately, my dad is so mechanically uninclined that he pays people to build AR15 lowers, so wasn't able to start tinkering with this stuff until adulthood.

 

I am an experienced "parts replacer" for AR15s, Glocks and cars, but my only experience hand fitting and filing guns comes from AKs. I've gotten pretty good at riveting and the use of a dremel and files to install Russian style side folding stock trunnions to AKM pattern receivers. This is a very different style of hand fitting to revolver internals, haha.

 

As far as replacement extractors, this is a 29-2, pinned and recessed, with the old style extractor. I'm assuming my only option for spares will be ebay or Numerich. Does anyone make replacements for the vintage stuff? This is why I am so paranoid about touching the extractor. If I could have bought a new one at Midway, I would have attempted modification. I am confident that the current extractor can be made to work, since I was able to fit the hand to the loosest ratchets and make it function. I only ruined it when I tried to fit it to the tightest ratchets, which caused the loosest one to go out of time.

 

I was also thinking of ordering the AGI video on Smith and Wesson gunsmithing. Do any of you have experience with it, and would it be valuable for me? Once I decide this, I'll order the next batch of parts.

 

[ysrracer]

2 hours ago, mchapman said:

I thought that you used a tractor mechanic.lol

 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, won't get fooled again.

[revoman]

2 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, won't get fooled again.

I think the saying is “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. “ Won’t Get Fooled Again is a song by the Who. 
 

✌

[revoman]

Oh yeah Merry Christmas ✌

[Toolguy]

7 hours ago, Tampa-XD45 said:

How about doing a YouTube video the next time you fit one?

Don't have the video shooting or editing skills or the time right now. Maybe someday.

[pskys2]

16 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Don't have the video shooting or editing skills or the time right now. Maybe someday.

If you over do make a dvd and sell it.  Jim did.

[pskys2]

21 hours ago, Couch-Commando said:

ysrracer, I personally get a very intense feeling of satisfaction when I am able to make something work. My idea of a fun Friday night, aside from shooting stuff, is to take something apart and put it back together again. How guns work has always fascinated me. Unfortunately, my dad is so mechanically uninclined that he pays people to build AR15 lowers, so wasn't able to start tinkering with this stuff until adulthood.

 

I am an experienced "parts replacer" for AR15s, Glocks and cars, but my only experience hand fitting and filing guns comes from AKs. I've gotten pretty good at riveting and the use of a dremel and files to install Russian style side folding stock trunnions to AKM pattern receivers. This is a very different style of hand fitting to revolver internals, haha.

 

As far as replacement extractors, this is a 29-2, pinned and recessed, with the old style extractor. I'm assuming my only option for spares will be ebay or Numerich. Does anyone make replacements for the vintage stuff? This is why I am so paranoid about touching the extractor. If I could have bought a new one at Midway, I would have attempted modification. I am confident that the current extractor can be made to work, since I was able to fit the hand to the loosest ratchets and make it function. I only ruined it when I tried to fit it to the tightest ratchets, which caused the loosest one to go out of time.

 

I was also thinking of ordering the AGI video on Smith and Wesson gunsmithing. Do any of you have experience with it, and would it be valuable for me? Once I decide this, I'll order the next batch of parts.

 

Gun parts inc, old numrich arms.

[Couch-Commando]

How helpful is the AGI video on S&W revolvers? Should I consider buying that? Are there any others I should consider?

 

I feel like I'm at the point that I understand the basics, but am confused about the fine details. I'm unsure if the AGI video is going to be detailed enough to be useful.

[gargoil66]

On 12/21/2022 at 10:39 PM, ysrracer said:

Is there a YouTube video out there showing you how to do this?

 

I learned brain surgery on YouTube, so far so goody.

YR:

 

In fact, I did find one that showed how to replace the cylinder stop and I think the hand.

 

Bottom line -- take it to a very good revolver smith.  That one is worth the fifty or hundred dollars he will charge.  Providing he does it right.

 

GG

[practical_man]

CC-

i have the agi video. It’s not very good. I learned much more from Warren. He’s a great revolver builder and will teach you everything you need to know to keep one running. 
 

Make an appointment with him. Take your parts over and he will show you what you need to know. It will be the best time and $ you’ve spent in a while. A much better value than any video lesson.  In fact, i need to get over to visit with him myself. 

 

-john

[Toolguy]

Thanks for the good word, John! Merry Christmas to everyone in the Enosverse!

[Couch-Commando]

Awesome, just ordered the parts. Warren, I'll contact you to set up a time when they arrive. Thanks again for offering to help!

 

ETA: I discovered another problem. My wife got me an Alpha X holster. It works great, except that my trigger is too wide. When I put the gun in the holster, the trigger gets pulled. I removed the trigger to test the holster.

 

Now I need to decide, is is safe to widen the holster insert above the locking mechanism to accomodate the half inch trigger, or should I get a narrower trigger before setting up a time to fit the hand and cylinder stop? The trigger is a half inch wide serrated trigger. After taking measurements, a .400 trigger should work without modification to the holster. I'm thinking a .400 smooth trigger might suit me better. I like wide triggers, but don't like serrated ones.

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Couch-Commando

[practical_man]

17 hours ago, Couch-Commando said:

Awesome, just ordered the parts. Warren, I'll contact you to set up a time when they arrive. Thanks again for offering to help!

 

ETA: I discovered another problem. My wife got me an Alpha X holster. It works great, except that my trigger is too wide. When I put the gun in the holster, the trigger gets pulled. I removed the trigger to test the holster.

 

Now I need to decide, is is safe to widen the holster insert above the locking mechanism to accomodate the half inch trigger, or should I get a narrower trigger before setting up a time to fit the hand and cylinder stop? The trigger is a half inch wide serrated trigger. After taking measurements, a .400 trigger should work without modification to the holster. I'm thinking a .400 smooth trigger might suit me better. I like wide triggers, but don't like serrated ones.

 

For DA work i really like a narrow and smooth trigger. You might try one before you decide. 
 

you can grind yours to narrow it and take the serrations off easily enough. I’ve done it a couple times. Warren can do it quickly and neatly. He might also have a trigger or two in his parts bins. 

[Toolguy]

18 hours ago, Couch-Commando said:

Awesome, just ordered the parts. Warren, I'll contact you to set up a time when they arrive. Thanks again for offering to help!

 

ETA: I discovered another problem. My wife got me an Alpha X holster. It works great, except that my trigger is too wide. When I put the gun in the holster, the trigger gets pulled. I removed the trigger to test the holster.

 

Now I need to decide, is is safe to widen the holster insert above the locking mechanism to accomodate the half inch trigger, or should I get a narrower trigger before setting up a time to fit the hand and cylinder stop? The trigger is a half inch wide serrated trigger. After taking measurements, a .400 trigger should work without modification to the holster. I'm thinking a .400 smooth trigger might suit me better. I like wide triggers, but don't like serrated ones.

 

The one I like for DA is a smooth .312 (5/16) or .265 (1/4) with rounded corners. If the trigger is too wide, it tends to make you pull to the side when pulling the trigger.

[pskys2]

Jm swore by a serrated trigger, tried it for quite some time and also prefer a smooth trigger now.

Get a new trigger, keep the original for value if you ever want to divest yourself of it.

On my racemaster I had to whittle the block down to work with my 627 PC.  Kind of a pain.

[Couch-Commando]

Is any fitting required when you swap a trigger? Just wondering how much trouble it would be to buy a couple to see what I like best.