Buy 1 Brand Of Powder Instead Of 2?

[JFD]

I'm wanting to use the same powder for my wife's .45 and my .40 to maybe simplify things a bit.

Right now I use Titegroup for my 180 grain jacketed .40 loads (loaded long for my Para) and Clays with the 220 grain LRN .45 loads.

I've never tried Clays with the .40 or Titegroup with the .45, but the factory data makes Clays look like a bad choice for the .40, and I know Titegroup smokes pretty bad(worse than Universal Clays anyway) with my cast 180 .40 loads, so it may be a bad choice for the .45 auto.

The only other powders I've used for the .45 is W231, Universal Clays, Clays, and N340. The price of the VV powder takes it out of the picture. I've had bad results with Universal and the .45, so that's not an option. W231 is too dirty for the .45 and I have no urge to try it in the .40, so that's not an option. Clays seems cleaner, smokes less than anything else I've tried, has a good recoil impulse/feel, and is accurate.

I'm fairly new to the .40 and chose Titegroup based on input from this forum. I did try Universal Clays for some lead loads and N340 for some 200 grain jacketed loads (wasn't a good bullet weight for me), but Titegroup seems to have been a great choice.

I'm kind of thinking I may be stuck buying both Clays and Titegroup (won't break my heart) unless Clays is no problem for 180 .40 loads that are loaded long.

OR I'm ignoring some other powder.

I'd appreciate some opinions from those "in the know" on the subject.

Edited December 13, 2005 by JFD

[WildWest N AZ]

Im in the same boat as U are with TG and Clays which one? From the info Ive found from published data thier are a number of loads with Clays and 180s for the 40. Alot of the data indicated that Clays was accurate, and from what Ive heard pretty clean shooting with light recoil. Also it was suggest to me that if you cant find N320 to try Clays because it suppose to shoot as soft. I dont have my data with me or else I tell what companys listed it as being good.

[Flexmoney]

I don't know the different "clays" off the top of my head. It sounds like you are talking about the fast Clays. If so, then many feel that powder is too fast for most 40 Major stuff. I don't know, but that is what I've read. Some do shoot it in 40, however.

I use TiteGroup in 40...and, it works pretty well for me in 9mm and 45 as well.

The 45 shooters often prefer a different powder, but TG is pretty good (there are just so many powder that are dead on perfect for 45 that "pretty good" might be seen as settling for a lessor powder).

What I hear from the 45 shooters is that TG shoots, but can be a bit dirty/sooty. It seems the soot shows up with lighter loads, and decreases when the powder factor is kicked up to Major +.

So, try TG and see if you like it or not.

[standles]

Try a pound an see as Flex said. I use TG for both my 40 and 45 loads. A buddy of mine asked the company which powder they recommended as a all around powder for .40 and .45. They responded TG.

I still say try them both and see which you like better. I liked TG.

[ricciardelli]

Have you even considered Power Pistol?

[tpcdvc]

There are 3 different kinds of Clays powder. Plain clays, international clays and universal clays. I listed them from fastest to slowest (titegroup falls between clays and international clays). The clays most people use in 45 is plain clays and in my opinion is the best as far as how it makes my gun recoil. Using plain clays in 40 is not recomended. The reason being huge pressure spikes on your way to major. However, I know of several people who use plain clays with a 180 in 40 with great success. The reason they can do this is that they load long (1.22 or longer) giving 40 a slightly larger case volume. I have been using titegroup for for my 40 loads for a long time and have shot my friends clays loads and the difference to me is very slight and not worth the risk of a pressure spike.

Anyway, if you have been loading universal clays in your wifes 45, I think she would be pleased with plain clays. The recoil seems much less to me.

[Bugs Bunny]

While it's no more than an elaboration on the good info tpcdvc has already given, the warning re Clays, on Jeff Mass pages adds some clarity to using Clays in .40 with 180 gr. and higher than Hodgdon max book loads and OAL, etc.

http://home.columbus.rr.com/jmaass/

[JFD]

I think Clays is just too good in the .45 to change to anything else. Definitely the best powder for cast bullets in this caliber.

I don't know if Titegroup is the best thing for the .40, but it's accurate, meters well, and dirt cheap compared with VV powder.

I guess I'll just stick with buying both. I'm sure Clays would be OK for the .40, but I don't want my main thought at a match to be "I hope my gun doesn't explode today"....

Thanks for the help.

Oh Crap! I just read my original post and I really screwed up the discussion of what Clays I was using. Universal Clays sucks in the .45 loads I've tried - major velocity variation. Plain old Clays is great. Universal Clays is better than Titegroup in terms of less smoke with cast .40 loads.

Edited December 13, 2005 by JFD

[Joe D]

I use TG for 9mm, .40, .45GAP and .45ACP. Clays is probably a little better for the .45ACP, but I wanted to stick with one powder.

[R/T Performance]

I started with universal clays in 40 but found you can not load light with it. I have switched to Titegroup and like it best been looking for w321 was told by a friend that it is cleaner but have not been able to locate any locally.

[tpcdvc]

As far as 40 is concerned, if I had a budget for it I might switch to VV320. It burns way cleaner than titegroup. That being said, I have shot 2000+ rounds between cleanings when I went to Franks school and I didn't have a problem. I can see no viable reason for me to switch to VV other than my gun being slightly less dirty. Plus, titegroup is a little faster burning than VV. Fast powder+heavy bullet seems to be the best formula these days.

Fun conversation guys!

[pskys2]

Universal Clays needs to be at top pressures in a .45 or it leaves unburnt powder and gives erratic velocities.

Titegroup in a .45 works real good, as long as it's not in a Stainless Revolver. It gets hotter, quicker than clays but it's actually a bit more accurate than clays.

Here's some Titegroup loads I've used for a .45 1911:

all had 469" Taper Crimp

Bullet Primer Load Velocity OAL

200 Precision SWC F150 4.6 Tite 824 f/s 1.250"

230 Precision LRN F150 4.4 Tite 743 f/s 1.210"

230 WW FMJ F150 4.5 Tite 732 f/s 1.240"

230 Ranier RN F150 4.5 Tite 769 f/s 1.245"

230 MGold CMJ F150 4.3 Tite 721 f/s 1.210"

Never seen any pressure signs, all loads are super accurate in an "Old" Accurized 1911. I'd have no problems with using Titegroup, but it gives me fits in a 625 (cakes up on the recoil shield and drags on the action).

[JFD]

The idea that Universal Clays needs to operate at top pressure in the .45 makes sense to me. I had nothing but problems with velocity variation (even broke down and hand weighed to make sure it wasn't the powder measure) trying to load major PF.

When I used it for cast .40 loads, it was the best powder tried so far.

I'm going crazy today and ordering 8 lbs of Titegroup, 8 Lbs of Clays (plain old Clays), and even 4 lbs of N320 (have to double check this is THE VV powder for .40 loads) to see how much better it is than Titegroup.

[Rico567]

I load Clays for .45 ACP (200 & 230 gr Rainier plated). I load Hodgdon's Universal in .40 (I only load the 165 gr Rainier FP).

For years, I loaded 231 in .45 ACP, and still consider it a great powder in that chambering. I switched to Clays for the softer recoil.

When I started shooting .40, I compared WSF, 540, the now-defunct WAP, and Universal (all powders with a similar burn rate) and ultimately chose Universal. This was largely based from chrono data from my G24; these are ALL good powders in .40.

I do not believe that a powder as fast as Clays is an optimum choice for .40. A lot of people seem to be using Titegroup in .40, but for low-power loads. Same for Clays. If one consults Hodgdon's burning rate chart, the rates for Clays and Titegroup are very close, Titegroup being a bit slower than Clays, Titewad a bit faster.

Conversely, I question whether the slower family of powders mentioned above is suitable for .45 ACP. Given the info (as mentioned above) about burn rates, it should make sense that Clays and Titegroup are very close in performance. I am currently experimenting with Titegroup in .45 ACP. So far, it seems very accurate and functions flawlessly, but it heats up the 1911 way more than Clays, and is far dirtier. On the other hand, as a friend remarked to me, "That dirt's not gonna stop the gun in one shooting session, and you do clean your guns, right?"

[tpe187]

I know this thread has been going on for a while, but I just thought I would add my experiences.

I think its possible to find one or two powders that are ok in mulitiple guns, but you will be better served by finding which powder your particular gun likes. I don't think you can beat Clays for .45 and shooting paper. It is just too soft and accurate to try anything else.

Because of my success with Clays in .45, I looked at loading it in .40 as well. After two seperate case head seperations, I won't load it anymore. Now, these were both in generous chambers (Glock 22 and Sig 226) and loaded to standard length. In my opinion, Titegroup is a really good powder for .40 as many here will attest to. It does run dirty in my guns, but the price and performance is worth it.

Just wanted to add my .02 and caution against the use of Clays in .40.

[JFD]

I'm glad I went ahead and ordered Clays for the .45 loads. No need to do something stupid.