X5 is back

[Racinready300ex]

Also, Mason and Nils winning basically proves you can pay pros to win with your gun and make everyone think it's amazing. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday clearly works on us. 

 

I expect to see 2011's die off from all the divisions now that there are much cheaper guns that perform just as good. Well, not open at least not until the lower the PF again, which is probably only a few years away. 

[X5SigChris]

1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

I think it's going to be a minor only division. 

I slightly believe so as well. Only because of the popularity of 9mm 2011s. With that being said, wonder if they would take more of the CO rules or limited. The magwell being the one that sticks out in my head. I’d hate to chew up a poly gripped 2011 like I chewed up my x5. 

[RJH]

1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

Also, Mason and Nils winning basically proves you can pay pros to win with your gun and make everyone think it's amazing. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday clearly works on us. 

 

That's kind of true, but they were also still shooting against pros with high-end 2011s. Which proves proshooters are going to shoot to a pro level even with a cheaper gun.

1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I expect to see 2011's die off from all the divisions now that there are much cheaper guns that perform just as good. Well, not open at least not until the lower the PF again, which is probably only a few years away. 

 

I doubt it, too many people think a $5,000 gun will get you a win when practice won't. If 2011's are allowed plenty of people will still shoot them, and will think that you have to have one to win. That's why there's so much wailing and gnashing of teeth over allowing 2011's into carryops. People will still spend a bunch of money on a 2011 and still get destroyed by people who put in more work or have more talent regardless of the gun that they use

[RJH]

5 minutes ago, X5SigChris said:

I slightly believe so as well. Only because of the popularity of 9mm 2011s. With that being said, wonder if they would take more of the CO rules or limited. The magwell being the one that sticks out in my head. I’d hate to chew up a poly gripped 2011 like I chewed up my x5. 

 

I'm for magwell's in carry-ops, whether 2011s get in or not LOL

[X5SigChris]

4 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

I'm for magwell's in carry-ops, whether 2011s get in or not LOL

Me too! I understand practice will make reloads smoother and less prone to looking like my dog got to it. But I have to get there first

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

I expect to see 2011's die off from all the divisions now that there are much cheaper guns that perform just as good. Well, not open at least not until the lower the PF again, which is probably only a few years away. 

Zero chance 2011 die. Are they expensive? Of course, but they are much much higher quality and fun to shoot. I could shoot a Glock just the same, but I'll choose a 2011 any day. If people only bought guns that ran, Glock would have a monopoly.

[Racinready300ex]

6 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

That's kind of true, but they were also still shooting against pros with high-end 2011s. Which proves proshooters are going to shoot to a pro level even with a cheaper gun.

 

 

 

This is kind of true, but limited is basically dead. It's not like back in the day when there were guys that were limited guys winning the division. Have you listened to Mason talk about training for Limited? He basically just trains for prod then shoots doubles to get used to the recoil. He doesn't really train limited

 

So either him and Nils are just crazy good and can focus on Prod and CO then just jump into Limited Nat's and win or it's just that no one at there level takes limited seriously anymore. Neither of which would prove anything about equipment. 

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

This is kind of true, but limited is basically dead. It's not like back in the day when there were guys that were limited guys winning the division. Have you listened to Mason talk about training for Limited? He basically just trains for prod then shoots doubles to get used to the recoil. He doesn't really train limited

 

So either him and Nils are just crazy good and can focus on Prod and CO then just jump into Limited Nat's and win or it's just that no one at there level takes limited seriously anymore. Neither of which would prove anything about equipment. 

 

So you're saying there's too many divisions and the talent is watered down

 

I get what you're saying really though. But, I went back and looked at the last 3 years and while all the shooters ain't the same, some of the top shooters like Blake M shot about the same percent of the winners, and that was whether the winner was JJ ricaza or Mason Lane. Todd Jarrett also shot about the same percent of the winner. I know TJ is not as good as he once was, but the fact that he was shooting about the same percent of the winner, tells me that the winners of limited the last few years all would shoot right amongst each other. Some of those guys that one were shooting 2011's and some were shooting plastic guns

Edited October 7, 2022 by RJH

[Boomstick303]

To me it looks like there is too much of a push to for the Major PF to be lowered and/or to go away all together.   I think it would most likely be minor only.

 

An interesting caveat to that is what if you could shoot 40 major or 9 mm minor in Limited Optics?

 

Capacity or Major PF.  Plus it would allow all of these old Limited shooters to just get their 2011 Limited gun milled for a red dot and they are good to go.

[RJH]

3 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

To me it looks like there is too much of a push to for the Major PF to be lowered and/or to go away all together.   I think it would most likely be minor only.

 

An interesting caveat to that is what if you could shoot 40 major or 9 mm minor in Limited Optics?

 

Capacity or Major PF.  Plus it would allow all of these old Limited shooters to just get their 2011 Limited gun milled for a red dot and they are good to go.

 

I think if you allow major most people are going to shoot major, I know I would.

 

I think the only way to really try to keep the older 40 cal limited guns relevant in a minor only division would be to put a capacity limit in that division. Say 20 round capacity limit since most of your 40 caliber guns make that pretty easy. But then that comes with its own set of headaches.

 

Although if I was shooting a 40 caliber limited gun and could throw a dot on it and shoot it in limited carryops or whatever they would call it and it had to be minor, I probably wouldn't feel too huge of a disadvantage having 20 rounds against everybody else's 23 or so. It would bite you occasionally though

[Boomstick303]

1 minute ago, RJH said:

I probably wouldn't feel too huge of a disadvantage having 20 rounds against everybody else's 23 or so. It would bite you occasionally though

 

Cap 40/major guns to 140 mm.

 

Minor guns can use 170mm.

 

Just floating ideas.

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Cap 40/major guns to 140 mm.

 

Minor guns can use 170mm.

 

Just floating ideas.

Would be fine with me, I'd still shoot major though 

[X5SigChris]

Hmmmm. Major or minor. I think I would go major personally. Me currently trying to push my speed, I know I’m going to shoot more Cs. That extra 2 points per target maybe would be nice. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

7 hours ago, Bdh821 said:

How is everyone so blind to see that SAO CO, Limited Optics as I’m calling it for now, is right around the corner. All these 2011 slide ride guns and now something like the 226 XFive. Yee talking about it on a recent podcast… it’s happening 

 

No one is blind.  However not everyone as sure as you are.

[Racinready300ex]

13 hours ago, RJH said:

 

So you're saying there's too many divisions and the talent is watered down

 

I get what you're saying really though. But, I went back and looked at the last 3 years and while all the shooters ain't the same, some of the top shooters like Blake M shot about the same percent of the winners, and that was whether the winner was JJ ricaza or Mason Lane. Todd Jarrett also shot about the same percent of the winner. I know TJ is not as good as he once was, but the fact that he was shooting about the same percent of the winner, tells me that the winners of limited the last few years all would shoot right amongst each other. Some of those guys that one were shooting 2011's and some were shooting plastic guns

 

Talent is certainly watered down at any match with TY h more than a couple divisons. Unless you shoot CO witch adding another CO division should fix. Maybe that's the goal, TY he BOD is more worried about fun than competition. 

 

I think I just don't like the argument that because Mason and nils won plastic wins. It egnores so a many variables and isn't really scientific at all. The premise could be solid but the way we make the point isn't. 

[Joe4d]

16 hours ago, GigG said:

 

I don't understand that.  CO is minor only and very few mods to the gun.  Limited would  pretty much a race gun without the comp. How would the "scores were interchangeable".

A few mods ? are you kidding me ? It is already limited rules, scored minor with a completely irrational exclusion of external single actions. 
Honestly a minor limited optics in addition to Co,, makes no sense to me , Then again alot of the rulings from USPSA dont either

[mikeAZ]

Humm... Sar K12 & CZ's single actions in CO.... Count me in!

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 hour ago, mikeAZ said:

Humm... Sar K12 & CZ's single actions in CO.... Count me in!

 

All CZs in CO now are single action after the first shot.  Can't get a decent DA shot?  Get stronger hands.

[mikeAZ]

Single action from the start

[HOGRIDER]

4 hours ago, mikeAZ said:

Humm... Sar K12 & CZ's single actions in CO.... Count me in!

And that includes the CZ P-10!

 

 

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

7 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

And that includes the CZ P-10!

 

 

 

 

The P-10 doesn't have a fully cocked striker.  It says so right in the CZ Armorers Manual and its easily verifiable

Edited October 8, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 hour ago, mikeAZ said:

Single action from the start

 

Like I said, get some hand strength and the DA shot takes care of itself.

[Nathanb]

On 10/7/2022 at 3:33 PM, Racinready300ex said:

Also, Mason and Nils winning basically proves you can pay pros to win with your gun and make everyone think it's amazing. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday clearly works on us. 

 

I expect to see 2011's die off from all the divisions now that there are much cheaper guns that perform just as good. Well, not open at least not until the lower the PF again, which is probably only a few years away. 

Thank god you said this. These guys can shoot anything. I’ve watched super squad guys pick up random guns and shoot like they have 100k pulls on it. Some people are just better and those examples are cases where they can shoot anything and be better. 

[HOGRIDER]

42 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

The P-10 doesn't have a fully cocked striker.  It says so right in the CZ Armorers Manual and its easily verifiable

And neither does the X5 Legion/ MAX series……

So your saying the P-10 has a DA first shot?

 

I’ve never shot one…..but CZ USA lists it as  “striker” type pistol……

 

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-10-f/

Edited October 8, 2022 by HOGRIDER
Sp

[Johnny_Chimpo]

24 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

So your saying the P-10 has a DA first shot?

 

I’ve never shot one…..but CZ USA lists it as  “striker” type pistol……

 

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-10-f/

 

I did not say it has a DA first shot.  I'm refuting your inference that it is a single action first shot.

 

I don't care what CZ USA says on its website.  I have three of them and the CZUB armorer's manual so I know how they actually work.

 

"Striker type pistol" is meaningless.  Some striker fired pistols (Glock, CZ) have a partially cocked striker.  Others, (Walther, SIG, Smith & Wesson) have a fully cocked striker.

 

The actual differences between the two types of striker actions are mostly meaningless. 

 

The point here is people whining about not being able to use their single action pistols in CO.  Buy a pistol that meets the rules instead of whining about your pet gun not being allowed.

 

The even bigger point is that you can't buy points.  Not with the finest trigger in the world, nor with the smallest group out of a 320 from a Ransom Rest.

 

If a double action first shot is too difficult, harden up your grip.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo