How am I more accurate with irons than a slide mounted optic?

[rowdyb]

6 hours ago, MHicks said:

 

In your, or other posters experience,  are all shooters capable, with practice, of using a red dot correctly? Do some shooters eyes or brains just not adjust to them or is it more a lack of putting the work in. It sounds like it does come more naturally to some shooters. I'm just getting set up to shoot an optic for the first time. Thanks.

Maybe people with one eye or an extremely bad astigmatism that is uncorrected. Even then there are work around. 

You can learn, it will just take knowledge and effort 

[MHicks]

Shooting irons sights one of the mantras  regarding sights is "see what you need to see".  You don't need the same refined sight picture at an open 7 yard target as you need for a 30 yard mini popper. Is the same thing true at any level with optics. On a 30 yard mini popper would you focus more on the dot?

[jimbullet]

8 hours ago, MHicks said:

Shooting irons sights one of the mantras  regarding sights is "see what you need to see".  You don't need the same refined sight picture at an open 7 yard target as you need for a 30 yard mini popper. Is the same thing true at any level with optics. On a 30 yard mini popper would you focus more on the dot?

I've always thought you need to look at the target and get the dot to come into the field of view. So I doubt if you need to focus on the dot, rather hold it steadier for long shots

 

[Blackstone45]

19 hours ago, MHicks said:

Shooting irons sights one of the mantras  regarding sights is "see what you need to see".  You don't need the same refined sight picture at an open 7 yard target as you need for a 30 yard mini popper. Is the same thing true at any level with optics. On a 30 yard mini popper would you focus more on the dot?

On an open 7 yard target, you might be content with seeing the dot as a streak on your target before you pull the trigger.

On a 30 yard mini popper, you will want the dot to be settled before you pull the trigger.

 

In neither of those situations should you be visually focused on the dot. Yes on the second case you might be mentally focusing more on what the dot is doing, but that doesn't mean honing in on the dot with your eyes.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Blackstone45

[IVC]

I would guess that your eyes are close in dominance if you have to close one. Otherwise, your brain would automatically tune out the non-dominant eye and you'd have no need to squint or close it. When I started paying attention to my eye dominance, I realized that my eyes are pretty close in dominance, so I started squinting for the shot and opening both eyes for transitions. It made a lot of difference - I realized it was too easy for the brain to try to "average" the two images coming from two eyes and I would pull shots to the side at speed. 

 

But back on topic, I would bet it's what someone mentioned above - when seeing dot you're likely trying to say "now" when you have dot in the middle of the target, which is about the worst time to jerk the trigger because the dot is moving away from that spot right at that time. If you keep the dot "dancing" in the middle and jerk the trigger, you'll be subconsciously keeping muzzle in the vicinity of the center and your groups will reflect the average wobble with some hits in the center. 

[Runswithwood1]

I've tinkered with a couple dots and always wind up going back to irons, in time I'm sure I'll revisit it but it just seems like you need a lot of reps to break the habits of iron sight shooting. I noticed when I would shoot I was constantly hunting for the dot to reacquire and consequently was either slower or severely less accurate. I'm sure that's a grip issue however.

[Joe4d]

3 hours ago, Runswithwood1 said:

I've tinkered with a couple dots and always wind up going back to irons, in time I'm sure I'll revisit it but it just seems like you need a lot of reps to break the habits of iron sight shooting. I noticed when I would shoot I was constantly hunting for the dot to reacquire and consequently was either slower or severely less accurate. I'm sure that's a grip issue however.

I'd say its a gun issue. Your gun doesnt fit your natural point of aim. You can either train to adjust said natural aim, or adjust your gun to fit you. Sorta like if you handed me a Glock,, Id be pointing it at the ceiling. Thats why we have different grip panels, main spring housings and back grip panels. 
Hold your gun at low ready,, look at a smaller spot or target,, now close your eyes and present to the target,, then open them...Where is the dot ? On many plastic fantastics that come with multi rear grip panels,,,the small will lower the dot,, the large will raise it.

[Sundot]

While fast shooting is one advantage, fiber optics are well-suited to accurate fire at longer ranges. In dim light, they do not glow as tritium does, but in all but total darkness, fiber-optic sights offer a superior aiming point for iron sights, and in bright light are generally superior to night sights.

[nitrohuck]

When I switched from Lim to CO I was entirely aware that I needed to be target focused and not look at my dot like it’s a front sight post. 
 

I knew it, I was aware of it, and yet it still took me a good bit of time before I could do it. It’s an oddly significant adjustment for my brain to make, but after a few matches and a lot of dryfire it clicked 

 

others here have told you to put tape over your dot to occlude it and force target focus, I’ll add my name to that list too, it helps massively. 

[Blackstone45]

On 2/25/2023 at 2:38 PM, nitrohuck said:

When I switched from Lim to CO I was entirely aware that I needed to be target focused and not look at my dot like it’s a front sight post. 
 

I knew it, I was aware of it, and yet it still took me a good bit of time before I could do it. It’s an oddly significant adjustment for my brain to make, but after a few matches and a lot of dryfire it clicked 

 

others here have told you to put tape over your dot to occlude it and force target focus, I’ll add my name to that list too, it helps massively. 

Do you shoot iron sights anymore? If so, did you find it useful to switch back to iron sights with all of the target focus stuff you learned shooting with an optic?

[nitrohuck]

On 2/27/2023 at 4:31 AM, Blackstone45 said:

Do you shoot iron sights anymore? If so, did you find it useful to switch back to iron sights with all of the target focus stuff you learned shooting with an optic?

 

 

So I barely shoot irons anymore, at least in competition. I did have to shoot a match once with my Lim gun bc my optic was sent out for warranty... it wasn't a great match. 

 

With CO I shoot both eyes wide open, with Limited it's more of a slight squint on my left eye in order to really make my front sight come into focus. I found that it was difficult to get my brain to switch back to shooting irons. Made me really respect the guys like Nils who can seemingly switch back and forth between dots and irons and still win regardless. 

[Sundot]

While fast shooting is one advantage, fiber optics are well-suited to accurate fire at longer ranges. In dim light, they do not glow as tritium does, but in all but total darkness, fiber-optic sights offer a superior aiming point for iron sights, and in bright light are generally superior to night sights.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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