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Competition trigger in appendix rig?


Twilk73

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I’ve been told it’s not recommended to run a 2.75-3.25 competition trigger in an appendix rig. Why is it going to go off by its self? What’s the deal? The duty trigger offered is 4.5 pounds. The stock current trigger might be 5.5 pounds. This is an archon type b. 
 

anyway I’ve been practicing my draw for over a year and dry firing for just as long. I’ve had some training (msp 3 day course) and I’ve been competing for a few months. I want to upgrade the trigger. But the duty weight hardly seems worth the squeeze. I didn’t care for triggers nor was I a snobby trigger guy until I shot my buddies legion with a 2.5 pound trigger. Honestly, I’ve shot his gun a few times but the other day after shooting his gun I had this trigger snob awakening within me and now I got the itch to go light. 

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How hard is it to push a 4lb block up an incline plane with a greater cofx, than a 2.5 lb block up an incline plane where the surface is polished and a much lower coefx?

 

The trigger may not change the probability of the fun spontaneously discharging. But it may allow the same chain of events to propagate further than otherwise. 

 

Or at least that is the most thoughtful answer that I've heard. Excluding the gun spontaneously going off, you're left with you. And you boils down to muzzle discipline and finger discipline. And frankly you can break one of the two and still be unlikely to shoot yourself. Break both though....

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5 hours ago, rowdyb said:

How hard is it to push a 4lb block up an incline plane with a greater cofx, than a 2.5 lb block up an incline plane where the surface is polished and a much lower coefx?

 

The trigger may not change the probability of the fun spontaneously discharging. But it may allow the same chain of events to propagate further than otherwise. 

 

Or at least that is the most thoughtful answer that I've heard. Excluding the gun spontaneously going off, you're left with you. And you boils down to muzzle discipline and finger discipline. And frankly you can break one of the two and still be unlikely to shoot yourself. Break both though....


I have two of the same guns. One I carry and one I use for IDPA in which I recently started competing locally. I also go regularly to my clubs idpa practice day. 
 

I started because why not, tactically it has to make me some percentage  better. My local club has a shoot house and an indoor range they turn the lights out on for IDPA. Well I got the itch for competition after that first match. So naturally I’m working at getting better and upgrading my comp pistol where legally excepted for IDPA rules. 
 

I can’t comprehend why some keep telling me not to put a competition trigger in an appendix rig. As far as I know guns don’t go off unless triggers are pulled or parts are defective, like bad trigger jobs. This trigger job makes the plunger lighter and sear spring lighter. If that’s correct the safeties should be fine. I realize appendix might be considered a bit more dangerous. But the goal is to never pull that trigger until ready and to be cautious when holstering. I do prep the trigger during my draw. I feel like that prep doesn’t start though until the gun is down range. This is where I see a potential for a negligent discharge in my actions. Something I should be able to work out in dry fire. 
 

Maybe in wrong, I don’t want to upgrade twice. This is why I’m hear asking the questions. I don’t want to start with the duty trigger unless I absolutely should. 
 

I recall stating to ride motorcycles on a ninja 250cc and that thing was very forgiving and I was thankful for it. However, I never rode any bike with a motor previously. In this situation I’ve already shot 3k in 9mm alone this year. Probably 4k last year. I am just saying while I’m new to competing I’ve been shooting, drilling and learning for two years. The club I’ve joined has made spring so much more accessible to me that even though I’ve been into guns since I was knee high I only recently considered myself an avid shooter. 
 

Thanks for the in put, it is very appreciated. 

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It comes down to personal choice and responsibility.  I don't appendix carry but the concept of a lighter, crisper trigger pull in a carry gun still applies. Having seen in a 2 day class many folks draw and holster from appendix carry, the muzzle did not cover their thighs or nut sack. Instructor had them lean upper torso back and bit and thrust hips forward on the reholster portion, with trigger finger safely away from trigger guard.

Personally am comfortable w a 3.75 lbs pull on an Apexed M&P 2.0 compact. 

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18 hours ago, Twilk73 said:


I have two of the same guns. One I carry and one I use for IDPA in which I recently started competing locally. I also go regularly to my clubs idpa practice day. 
 

I started because why not, tactically it has to make me some percentage  better. My local club has a shoot house and an indoor range they turn the lights out on for IDPA. Well I got the itch for competition after that first match. So naturally I’m working at getting better and upgrading my comp pistol where legally excepted for IDPA rules. 
 

I can’t comprehend why some keep telling me not to put a competition trigger in an appendix rig. As far as I know guns don’t go off unless triggers are pulled or parts are defective, like bad trigger jobs. This trigger job makes the plunger lighter and sear spring lighter. If that’s correct the safeties should be fine. I realize appendix might be considered a bit more dangerous. But the goal is to never pull that trigger until ready and to be cautious when holstering. I do prep the trigger during my draw. I feel like that prep doesn’t start though until the gun is down range. This is where I see a potential for a negligent discharge in my actions. Something I should be able to work out in dry fire. 
 

Maybe in wrong, I don’t want to upgrade twice. This is why I’m hear asking the questions. I don’t want to start with the duty trigger unless I absolutely should. 
 

I recall stating to ride motorcycles on a ninja 250cc and that thing was very forgiving and I was thankful for it. However, I never rode any bike with a motor previously. In this situation I’ve already shot 3k in 9mm alone this year. Probably 4k last year. I am just saying while I’m new to competing I’ve been shooting, drilling and learning for two years. The club I’ve joined has made spring so much more accessible to me that even though I’ve been into guns since I was knee high I only recently considered myself an avid shooter. 
 

Thanks for the in put, it is very appreciated. 

 

You will hear a lot of stupid stuff repeated without thought in the gun world.  Whenever you hear something that makes no sense ask the person telling you to explain the reason.  If they give you a thoughtful, reasonable explanation then consider it and do research to either validate that answer or to disprove it.  Some people who sound reasonable and authoritative are still full of s#!t.

 

However most of the time your request for an explanation will be answered with a screech, a non-sensical answer, a "because I said so/I read it online/my grandpappy taught me that way down home on the farm".  In that case smile, ignore, and go on your way.

 

I look at this way.  I'm an adult man, well educated and experienced with mechanical systems and firearms are probably some of the simplest machines I've ever dealt with.  I do my research, I ask technical questions from people I know to be equally or more qualified than I, make my own risk vs reward analysis, and from that my own decision.

 

Then I don't tell others about it.  I just move on with my life.

 

I recommend the same to you.

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1 hour ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

You will hear a lot of stupid stuff repeated without thought in the gun world.  Whenever you hear something that makes no sense ask the person telling you to explain the reason.  If they give you a thoughtful, reasonable explanation then consider it and do research to either validate that answer or to disprove it.  Some people who sound reasonable and authoritative are still full of s#!t.

 

However most of the time your request for an explanation will be answered with a screech, a non-sensical answer, a "because I said so/I read it online/my grandpappy taught me that way down home on the farm".  In that case smile, ignore, and go on your way.

 

I look at this way.  I'm an adult man, well educated and experienced with mechanical systems and firearms are probably some of the simplest machines I've ever dealt with.  I do my research, I ask technical questions from people I know to be equally or more qualified than I, make my own risk vs reward analysis, and from that my own decision.

 

Then I don't tell others about it.  I just move on with my life.

 

I recommend the same to you.


Great advice. I don’t respond often enough with why do you think that as I’m usually pondering the answer they gave and trying to figure it out on my own. 

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Maybe it depends.  A gal at a Ben stoger class had an m&p with a massaged trigger go off while sitting in the holster. It's been a while, but I think there was video of it. As I recall the gun wasn't touched at all. Things like that are probably why people recommend not going to a real light trigger in a ln an appendix carry gun. Questionable reliability might be why people recommend not messing with the trigger in any carry gun. 

 

 

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Hi...my name is Bob and I'm a trigger snob.

OK, my name isn't Bob, but I am a trigger snob.  Having said that, while my Glock competition pistols have Timney triggers installed that break at just over 2 lbs (they really break at around 2 lbs 3 oz), the only mods I do these days to my Glock EDC pistols is install an Apex flat trigger shoe and that's usually all.  The reasoning behind having an EDC trigger on the heavy side is not isolated to appendix carry, the reasoning is based on by the fact that in a stressful situation, when your adrenalin is pumping, you will likely exert more force because of this and so you will fire your weapon using much less willful thought about actual trigger pressure being applied and the overall situation.  So, with a heavier trigger break it can provide an extra measure of safety that forces you to think for an instant when you hit the wall on the trigger pull, just before the trigger breaks.  This is likely why standard military and LEO pistols have triggers that break on the heavy side.  Personally, I like a trigger break around 4-5 pounds on my EDC pistols as I feel comfortable that this provides me with that extra measure of safety, regardless of carry style.  Taking a life (yours or someone else), blowing off a body part, or putting holes in yourself, should all be things that you need to think about for just an instant before you pull the trigger. 

Edited by ShredderTactical
Clarification.
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10 hours ago, ShredderTactical said:

The reasoning behind having an EDC trigger on the heavy side is not isolated to appendix carry, the reasoning is based on by the fact that in a stressful situation, when your adrenalin is pumping, you will likely exert more force because of this and so you will fire your weapon using much less willful thought about actual trigger pressure being applied and the overall situation.

 

I would never admit to that in public, or even speculate about it.

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I have been mad at "Mr. Happy" before, since he consistently encouraged me to make some really questionable decisions in my youth.  But I have never been so mad at him that I'd point a gun at him repeatedly, light trigger or not....

 

(Just being a sarcastic jacka**.  This is humor.  Don't get mad, AIWB guys...)

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6 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I would never admit to that in public, or even speculate about it.


OK...let's see what Massad Ayoob (world recognized firearms expert, published writer in many firearms magazines and on line media, and expert witness for self defense trials) has to say about light triggers.  He was recorded in a video interview about this subject after testifying in a trial, and repeats several times how light triggers can lead to "negligent discharge under stressful situations".

Recommend watch the complete video, but if you're in a hurry jump to around time 6:30 and hear Mr. Ayoob speak on the subject... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeLgzT-9N54
 

Edited by ShredderTactical
Correction.
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Someone misunderstood the question and de rained this conversation. This was a discussion about light triggers in an appendix rig for a competition  gun.
 

My carry gun remains untainted and I like it that way. 

 

Great input either way, most of which I agree with as well. 

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My competition 9mm 1911 breaks at 3 lbs.  My AIWB Staccato C2 breaks at 3-3/4 lbs.  Between thumb safety, trigger finger discipline and otherwise good SW I don't have a problem with a relatively light trigger.   Lower than 3 lbs. I would see a point since the point of no return pressing out would arrive pretty darn early.  A 3lb. trigger I can manage very, very well.

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3 hours ago, ShredderTactical said:


OK...let's see what Massad Ayoob (world recognized firearms expert, published writer in many firearms magazines and on line media, and expert witness for self defense trials) has to say about light triggers.  He was recorded in a video interview about this subject after testifying in a trial, and repeats several times how light triggers can lead to "negligent discharge under stressful situations".

Recommend watch the complete video, but if you're in a hurry jump to around time 6:30 and hear Mr. Ayoob speak on the subject... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeLgzT-9N54
 

 

Who?

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