Carina's Car Crash Questions

[carinab]

I got a call from my insurance company this afternoon, it seems that the other party is filing an injury claim and will be retaining a lawyer. Appearantly she called the adjuster looking for funds so she could go to the doctor. It's likely one of two things; either she's a bit stiff and sore and in a catch 22 because of her maxed out credit cards (and she may have no health insurance - although she works at Walmart) or she thinks she's won the car crunch lottery.

Perhaps a mod can move this over to the questions that don't fit anywhere category because....

Has anyone here had experience with this situation enough to explain the usual process? I asked my insurance what would happen if she brought a civil suit and they said they would hire a lawyer to represent me on their dime to negotiate up to the limit of my coverage. All well and good (as I would be surprised if she could get the limit for a 15 mph accident). But doesn't it depend on how she sues? I mean I understand that my liability coverage will cover X amount, but can she go outside of that and try to get our assets (house, bank accounts, etc)? Would her lawyer be able to gleen how much the policy is worth? Besides running a background check and credit check (can they do that without our permission?), would her lawyer be able to figure out our debt ratio in order to decide if we're a better target than the insurance company?

What a nightmare...I am so mad at myself that this happened. This is the first time I've ever been on this side of a car accident.

On the home front, the wood installers finished staining today. The fumes aren't too bad but I think I've gotten a slight contact high. The temperature is supposed to be down to 30 tonite and all my return vents are still taped off so I can't run the heat and open some windows.

Sandoz, you hit the nail on the head. I'm opting for the waterbaesd finish as they use a product rated for commercial applications (the specs say it's very tough stuff) - non toxic, no fumes. They did booger up a few things though; they didn't R&R the toilet so there's a nice stripe around it in the bath, they didn't putty in some knot holes, they didn't take the ten minutes to mask off the door frames so I have goopy brown stain on my white paint, they didn't get the finish completely off about a dozen or so boards in one room before they stained. Those boards look psychedelic with a weird zebra effect. They'll have to be re-sanded as I'm sure the waterbourne finish won't adhere to the old old finish. Ack!

Wow, I must be racking up karma points for the future. Either that or I'm being punished for my sins. I wish I knew what they were as I can't remember enjoying any good sinning lately.

BTW, the first part of this thread is over here.

Edited November 16, 2005 by carinab

[BritinUSA]

Hi, sorry to hear about all your troubles. I would suggest that if you have concerns about the insurance thing, that you contact your insurance provide. All companies vary and the laws in each state are also different.

Your insurer will most likely have some information on their web-site. You should tell them about the statements made by the other driver with regard to her maxed out credit cards. If she's trying to pull a fast one then your Insurer needs to know that so they can check it out.

Check your home insurance, most home insurance has liability coverage in case you get sued for anything (even car stuff in some cases). Courts cannot take your home at least that's always been my understanding.

The cost-assessor will be able to determine the speed at the time of the crash, they are really good at that kind of thing. If it was a low speed impact then that reduces the risk of injury considerably so if the other driver is claiming an injury then it may be suspect. She will need medical records to back it up.

This is why it's important to make sure your insurer knows what happened AFTER the accident. If the other driver was running round waving her arms in the air then it's unlikely she was injured. Information is everything.... good luck

[Merlin Orr]

Most newer cars have the speed info stored in the onboard computer which will tell the speed you were at during the crash.... Not sure if it is a good thing but it is in the computer.

[Al Capizzo]

Carrina,

As I understand it, here in Texas you can't be sued past the limits of your insurance policy unless the insurer screws up badly.

An attorney will file suit against YOU, but your insurers job is to represent you. They have a specified amount of time (3 months, 6 months?, can't remember) to respond and as long as they respond to the suit in time the max amount available is the amount of policy.

If they don't respond in time then any amount of $$ is possible.

I've been on the "sue-r" side once and thats what I remember.

Why don't you call Tonda, she's the real attorney?

Al

[carinab]

Most newer cars have the speed info stored in the onboard computer which will tell the speed you were at during the crash.... Not sure if it is a good thing but it is in the computer.

Might be on hers, mine is an '01 Explorer Sport Trac so I don't have one....

[Rob Boudrie]

I have "been there, done that".

The informal rules of the game *as it is played in Masachusetts* - your mileage may vary.

- The plaintiff is after the "easy money" - insurance $$. It is very rare for them to bother beyond the "easy cash", since lawyers have to deal with actually collecting. Although there are fradulent conveyance statutes to prevent you from giving your $$ away to relatives to protect it, actually collecting involves that four letter word ending in k ("work"). Just ask Ron Goldman .

- The plaintiff has a right to know how much your insurance coverage is, so his/her counsel can figure out if the case it worth taking. In this respect, having a large limit increases the chance of being sued.

- The jury is not allowed to know your insurance status or limits, but they will be thinking "insurance money"

- Once a case is filed, it is very, very rare for the plaintiff not to get a settlement. The odds of a settlement go up in bogus cases, since plaintiff's counsel takes the risk of not getting paid if the case goes to trail.

- MA has a seat belt law, but the defendant is not allowed to make any reference to the plaintiff's failure to wear a belt. The trial lawyers wanted to make sure a mandatory seat belt law did not diminish the contingency fee potential of cases.

- Your insurance company will provide a lawyer to represent you - "sort of." When I had my first meeting with the lawyer I asked "who do you legally represent, you or the insurance carrier?" He said "You." I responded "Fine. The outrageous demand the plaintiff is making is within my policy limits. The best way to remove all risk to me quickly is for you to advise the insurance company to pay the requested amount." The lawyer responded with "I may represent you, but that does not mean I can forget who is paying my fee."... hence my use of the term "sort of."

- The insurance firm's expense in paying the attorney does not count against policy limits (check on this in your state)

[Ted Murphy]

I know with some friends and colleagues that were sued above their insurance limits, they had to retain their own counsel to represent their interests.

Ted

[MBaneACP]

Carina heart-of-my-heart;

Get advice from an attorney specializing in car crash/insurance-related issues...NOW! It's worth the $200 or so you'll have to pay to know exactly where you stand. Pain in the butt, but a NECESSARY pain in the butt!

Michael B

[Rob Boudrie]

Carina heart-of-my-heart;

Get advice from an attorney specializing in car crash/insurance-related issues...NOW! It's worth the $200 or so you'll have to pay to know exactly where you stand. Pain in the butt, but a NECESSARY pain in the butt!

Michael B

I did that as well, but I paid him with bullets from the reloading room.

[carinab]

For those of you enjoying this soap opera, here are the pics....

could be worse...

Uh well...maybe it is

Damn, nearly missed by <-------that-------> much!

Edited November 16, 2005 by carinab

[GTOSHootr]

Most newer cars have the speed info stored in the onboard computer which will tell the speed you were at during the crash.... Not sure if it is a good thing but it is in the computer.

Not a great thing. Low speed impacts using human volunteers show the potential for injury with collisions involving a change of speed as low as 7mph. Under 6mph, volunteers show sore necks and stiffness lasting a few days. Not all cars have black boxes and few people have readers and the training to get admissible data. We do. Our family business is automotive forensics. We've seen a few thousand low speed impacts for insurance companies.

Rob is right. The cost and the risk involved in going beyond the insurance company to you are probably not worth it to the other side. Your insurance company will probably negotiate a settlement. They pay, that is what they are there for.

MJ works for bullets? Not surprising.

Steve

[iainmcphersn]

Most newer cars have the speed info stored in the onboard computer which will tell the speed you were at during the crash.... Not sure if it is a good thing but it is in the computer.

Not a great thing. Low speed impacts using human volunteers show the potential for injury with collisions involving a change of speed as low as 7mph. Under 6mph, volunteers show sore necks and stiffness lasting a few days. Not all cars have black boxes and few people have readers and the training to get admissible data. We do. Our family business is automotive forensics. We've seen a few thousand low speed impacts for insurance companies.

Rob is right. The cost and the risk involved in going beyond the insurance company to you are probably not worth it to the other side. Your insurance company will probably negotiate a settlement. They pay, that is what they are there for.

MJ works for bullets? Not surprising.

Steve

+1

I worked as an injury adjuster for a big insurance company for 13 years in Alabama. I rarely saw a claim in our office that went to suit. Most of them were settled before an attorney was involved and the ones that went to suit were rarely tried. Most of the time the suit filing was just a negotiating point on the part of the plaintiff attorney and the case was settled before actually going to court.

Since this is a very recent accident, I'd be inclined to relax and see what happens. Most likely your insurer will handle everything and you will not have to be worried about it. If the insurance company does not handle the case correctly and does leave you liable, you are likely to have a very good claim against them for bad faith handling and breach of contract.

Unfortunately you'll probably see a rate increase but I think it unlikely the other person will be able to get to you or your finances personally.

Take care,

John

[lynn jones]

hi carinab,

just let your insurance company handle the claim. they will probably settle out of court with the claimant.

fwiw, get your insuance company to give you your claim check in hand, or mail it a post office. i recently had a car accident too, oct 4. the other person had insurance and was at fault. the claims adjuster said she sent my check out on the 21st of oct. and was cashed on the 25th of oct. guess what i didn't get. that's right someone stole and cashed my $3000 claim check.

sorry for jumping your thread. this sux too.

best of luck with the claim.

lynn

[tomfturner]

I would just let the insurance company handle it. Your vehicle looks like you hit her while trying to swerve to avoid it (from what I can see), and it looks like a 10-20mph impact on the corner. It sounded like you were worried about that, but to me that's what it looks like. It's the incidents that don't have much damage (visible) that are indications of people not braking (momentum is a viscious thing). It sounds like the insurance company just needs to have their time to talk with her via their lawyers.

They will handle it. That's what you pay them for. :-D

-T

[kimel]

At least find the name of a good attorney that specializes in defending this stuff and have the prelim conversation ala Michael's suggestion. That way if the crap does hit the fan you are Condition 1 and ready to return fire.

Being over-prepared may seem silly but having to stress while looking for an attorney will make being over prepared seem like a darn good idea.

Besides, if they do try something silly being able to say "Talk to my lawyer, his/her number is..." often will change attitudes about a reasonable settlement.

[GuildSF4]

Ditto to what Kimel said.

As for the air bags... According to insurance adjusters on an accident I had about a year ago, the air bag not deploying does not necessarily indicate the speed the vehicle was going, as the acts of braking or swerving affect the operation of the air bag. (That is the information given to me, anyone know more about this?)

[Skywalker]

As for the air bags... According to insurance adjusters on an accident I had about a year ago, the air bag not deploying does not necessarily indicate the speed the vehicle was going, as the acts of braking or swerving affect the operation of the air bag. (That is the information given to me, anyone know more about this?)

The airbags, I mean the frontal ones, only deploy when the deceleration (negative acceleration) of a car along its longitudinal axis exceeds a specific design threshold.

Yes, you can have pretty bad accidents with high accelerations involved, and the airbags not deployed, but this has to occurr on a different axis: this way the component along the longitudinal axis of the acceleration is only a small part of it.

Judging from the pics Carina posted, she hit the other vehicle slightly off-center of the longitudinal axis, thus the most part of the deceleration was along it.

I seriously doubt that in this specific collision, were high speed involved, the airbags would have not deployed.

[GTOSHootr]

Yes, the airbags did not deploy because of the offset impact. The damage might lead someone to think that more speed was involved but it is a really common misconception. As she was braking the weight of the vehicle was transfered forward, bringing the frontend down. Her front bumper underrode the other car's rear bumper. The weaker structure of the radiator support and the right front fender crushed easily against the much stronger rear bumper of the Toyota.

A lot of times insurance companies will see the two cars and doubt that the damage corresponds or they might think that some of the damage was enhanced to create a higher valued claim. A fair amount of the time there is some fraud. They hire our accident reconstructionists to sort that stuff out.

[lynn jones]

At least find the name of a good attorney that specializes in defending this stuff and have the prelim conversation ala Michael's suggestion. That way if the crap does hit the fan you are Condition 1 and ready to return fire.

Being over-prepared may seem silly but having to stress while looking for an attorney will make being over prepared seem like a darn good idea.

Besides, if they do try something silly being able to say "Talk to my lawyer, his/her number is..." often will change attitudes about a reasonable settlement.

the insurance company will hire a lawyer for you, but it's their lawyer not yours. you will have to pay out of your pocket for your personal lawyer. fwiw.

lynn

[GuildSF4]

As for the air bags... According to insurance adjusters on an accident I had about a year ago, the air bag not deploying does not necessarily indicate the speed the vehicle was going, as the acts of braking or swerving affect the operation of the air bag. (That is the information given to me, anyone know more about this?)

The airbags, I mean the frontal ones, only deploy when the deceleration (negative acceleration) of a car along its longitudinal axis exceeds a specific design threshold.

Yes, you can have pretty bad accidents with high accelerations involved, and the airbags not deployed, but this has to occurr on a different axis: this way the component along the longitudinal axis of the acceleration is only a small part of it.

Judging from the pics Carina posted, she hit the other vehicle slightly off-center of the longitudinal axis, thus the most part of the deceleration was along it.

I seriously doubt that in this specific collision, were high speed involved, the airbags would have not deployed.

Sounds like swerving and braking can have an effect, but not much of one... Angle of collision would have more effect than either of those. (Sounds like adjuster was blowing smoke on mine...)

[GTOSHootr]

Sounds like swerving and braking can have an effect, but not much of one... Angle of collision would have more effect than either of those. (Sounds like adjuster was blowing smoke on mine...)

Our guy says air bags deployment is based on the "pulse" and "duration" of the impact. If you have a high pulse level with a short duration, you get bags. So all that stuff can conrtibute. There are experts that only deal in air bag cases. They're expensive.

The important thing is that Carina didn't get hurt.

[GuildSF4]

The important thing is that Carina didn't get hurt.

Very true, and thanks for the info.

[kimel]

the insurance company will hire a lawyer for you, but it's their lawyer not yours. you will have to pay out of your pocket for your personal lawyer.

That's a double-edged sword. If things get a bit hinky and your insurance company decides to cut their losses the lawyer goes with them along with all the preparation you did up to that point. Then you get to go start over. At least get someone lined up just in case.

[bgary]

A lot of times insurance companies will see the two cars and doubt that the damage corresponds or they might think that some of the damage was enhanced to create a higher valued claim. A fair amount of the time there is some fraud. They hire our accident reconstructionists to sort that stuff out.

That's been my experience, too.

Several years back I rear-ended someone Slippery street, downhill, car in front stopped unexpectedly - in the traffic lane - to turn left. I swerved, slid, clipped the back-right corner. 6000-pound mid-70s full-size Blazer meets Toyota Corolla. Back corner of their car bashed in, trunk lid mangled, but totally drivable (and not a scratch - literally - on my truck, but the front bumper was bent back about an inch. Geez, I miss the days when trucks were made out of real American metal ;-)

The middle-aged couple in the car said they were fine, we exchanged information, then left. An hour or so later, I got a call from them, asking me if I owned my home, and what the policy limits on my liability coverage were. Alarms started going off in my head.

First thing the next morning, called my insurance agent to give him a heads up. Sure enough, the couple claimed all sorts of non-verifiable-but-debilitating injuries, (headaches, dizziness, nightmares, anxiety, etc ) and said their medical bills alone would likely be over 25k, not including rehab and lost wages. My agent said "it sounds like they want to retire on your dime!"

My insurance company sent someone out to actually *measure* the amount of distortion on my front bumper, so that they could calculate the speeds and forces involved. They were able to "prove" to the other insurance company that the injuries claimed could not have resulted from that crash. They ended up settling for a much, much smaller amount.

I got the impression that this is a "game" that insurance companies deal with all the time. The "typical" settlement is actual repair costs, actual medical costs, and as much as 3x the medical costs for "pain and suffering". If the claim goes "off-pattern", they seem well equipped to determine whether the claim is warranted or just ...opportunistic.

ymmv

Bruce

[AShots]

Hey Carina--Andrea here (from Ft. Benning Ladies Camp) This is my first post after a long time lurking on this wonderful board.

So sorry to hear about your accident and very glad you weren't hurt. You mentioned you were on your way to drop off your daughter when it happened...was she already safely in school or...?

Kinda a good thing the airbags didn't go off, as expensive as they are to replace if repairs will be done to your car. My fam and I had our car totaled around this time last year. In one of those crazy, inane moments of clarity during the accident I remeber thinking, Hey, that smells familiar, when the airbags deployed. Guess whatever is in there to make them explode is a close relative to gunpowder. But anyway, I know the headaches with the insurance companies and lawyers. Hang in there hon, and I hope everything gets resolved well for you.