Calling The Shot

[Jake Di Vita]

From what I've noticed on the board there seems to be a lot of confusion behind what actually calling the shot means.

I'd like to get everyone's definition of what they believe it to mean and hopefully this will clear up some of the confusion.

To me, calling the shot means knowing where the sight was when the bullet left the barrel. It has nothing to do with grip, stance, trigger control, whether the shot was an A, C, D, Miss, NS whatever. Only where the sights were when the bullet left the barrel.

[shred]

Hmm.. to me it means knowing where the shot went (actually.. where it should be, barring freak accidents with disintegrating bullets, quantum black holes, broken scopes or whatever). Similar but implies also some level of 'scoring' the shot, if only "OK or Not-OK?" (and doesn't actually require seeing the sights if they aren't needed or available for some reason, though this is an uncommon case)

[Clay1]

Calling the shot is seeing where the sights are when the trigger breaks/when the bullet leaves the barrel. I think that is the easier option when the sights are perfectly aligned. Classic front post even with the top of the rear notch and equal amounts of light on both sides of the post.

I think the next step is knowing where the bullet will hit without perfect sight alignment. The post is on one spot but the light isn't equal on both sides of the notch. When moving, this happens and you should know where the bullet will go without perfect classic sight alignment.

Reading the sights and knowing where the bullet will go.

Rick

[Flexmoney]

Jake,

Great topic.

I am going to agree with the distinction that shred mentioned. A shooter can call the shot...can know where the bullet went...but, not get that feedback/input from the sights.

I do, however, prefer the feedback I get from the sights. Even at close distances.

[Flexmoney]

A bit more (after reading a current thread).

...knowing where the bullet will impact...

With a goal of knowing with as much certainty as possible.

[Matt Cheely]

Before I could call shots with the sights, I could feel if a shot had "gone bad" and I'd make it up. Now that I can see the sights and call the shot with certainty, I feel it's a combination of both. Up close when using my index, I can partially "feel" if the shot was good. Otherwise, trust the sights!

ETA: Calling the shot would be knowing where it was going to impact the target, or not impact the target.

Edited October 27, 2005 by hksniperman

[XRe]

So far, the sights have always been affixed to my slide.... heh heh

My take on it is closer to shred's and Flex's. The first part of it is awareness of where the sights are and what they're doing - knowing where the sights are lined up when I break the trigger and the gun starts to lift. That information is crucial.

However - that's similar to knowing how fast your car is going (by reading the speedometer) without knowing where the car is pointed. I also need to know where that bullet is headed in order to fully "call" the shot - and to also know if the bullet will impact on the target or not, etc.

In "calling" the shot, I know exactly where it ended up (in theory) - thus, I could "call" out where it hit on the target without looking at the target. It's this act, in fact, that the term "calling the shot" comes from (IIRC).

[benos]

Calling the shot means knowing where the bullet went before it got there. You get this information by reading the sights. Which means seeing, at the instant the gun fires, the relationship between the sight's alignment and the target. With this information, your mind can calculate where the bullet went.

To begin with, it's best to learn this with everything as still as possible. (Shooting groups off sandbags.) Then you can transfer what you learn there into a freestyle position. (Shooting groups standing.) Now that you have the basic skill set, you can begin "advanced reading" - processing the two bits of information (relationship of sight alignment to sight picture) while the sights are in motion. (Blasting away on an IPSC stage.) Then, with that solidly under your belt, you're ready to tackle "super-duper advanced reading" - calling your shots on swingers and movers.

be

[davidball]

I'm still in the research / learn / early development stage of this skill. My understanding is that "calling you shot" means you know with a high degree of certainty where the shot impacted on the target based on the feedback (visual and physical) we receive while making the shot. The difficult part is how to do this. Is it simply sight picture at the point of breaking the shot? Or are there other factors that contribute to correctly ascertaining where the shot went. The following are excerpts from Saul Kirsch's Thinking Practical Shooting, page 18.

"Calling your shots is based mostly on sight picture, trigger pull, and the sense of how the gun acts in recoil."

"Sight picture is of utmost importance . . ."

"Through experience and focused practice you need to learn where and how far a shot is going off target when you have a poor trigger pull, and what error is acceptable or not."

"However, the gun recoils "unnaturally" when conflicting forces are at work. This affects the shot, and needs to be part of your call. . . the feel of the recoil indicates if an error has been made."

[Jake Di Vita]

For me trigger control is a non issue because even if I wickedly pull the shot during the trigger pull...I'll still see where the sights were when the shot fired. If you can see the sights you can call the shot.

[XRe]

"Calling your shots is based mostly on sight picture, trigger pull, and the sense of how the gun acts in recoil."

...

"Through experience and focused practice you need to learn where and how far a shot is going off target when you have a poor trigger pull, and what error is acceptable or not."

I'm on the same page with Jake with this - trigger pull, in and of itself, doens't really tell me anything about where the shot went. It's only the sights, and their position on (or off) the target at the point in time when the shot breaks that can tell me that. I think what Saul is getting at, here, is that with good trigger control skills, you will also be able to feel immediately when you've jerked a shot or something like that - this then feeds subconsciously into the "shot calling process" instantaneously as a clue that the last shot was special and needs to be ultra-confirmed. The only way that works is if it's all happening subconscisouly as a result of lots of practice - one day you'll just notice that you're doing it - that you felt a bad trigger pull and you became even more aware of your sights on that particular shot, as your subconscious mind reacts to the sensation of the bad trigger pull.

At least - I notice that in my shooting occasionally. I didn't develop it intentionally, and have just chalked it up to my subconscious acting on my desire to put every shot on target as well as it can....

[Flexmoney]

We do have (at least) 5 senses to give us feedback. And, our balance, awareness, coordination, etc. all play into giving us cues as to what is going on in our environment.

It is probably pretty hard to taste or smell a bad shot. But, we can likely feel that something is off with the trigger press. We can tell if we are off balance and our stance is out of whack.

So, there are clues out there. But, as mentioned, vision seems to be far and away our best form of feedback. We can be falling over a fault line, shooting with our pinky finger of the weak hand...as long as we can be aware with our vision, we stand a good chance of knowing where the bullet is going to hit.

[BSeevers]

I see a lot of new shooters confused that seeing your hits is calling your shot.

Notice Brian and others show "calling the shot" is a seperate skill developed over time. Its like shooting a 15 foot jumper and fading back toward opponents basket, because you "know" its in. Swish!

I believe its related to "feel" but you must have the experience to read the inputs and compute the results. This is a very important skill. I shot groups yesterday. Did you? They are the first step to calling shots. You must master the fundamentals of grip and trigger control too, so they become assets to calling the shot. I think that's why a shooter like Jake isn't concerned about trigger control, index, grip. Its 90-100% good already on shot.

A phrase I used to help people is Pay attention to the sights. It starts the process of awareness. Then I ask what do you see?

I believe a lot of people can shoot real well and still not call a shot. If you want to win you must have that skill.

[Skywalker]

Jake,

now you have me wondering.

I mean, I always assumed the purpose of learning to call shots was to be able to decide, in that split fraction of a second, if the shot that broke was acceptable or not (i.e. a make-up is needed or not).

With this goal in mind, I always thought that the fastest way to get input data to help in the decisional process above was to have a clear understanding of the relationship between the sights and the target.

The technique to learn this skill has been cleverly explained by Brian: work in steps and learn how things change from the basics (shooting rested groups) to the most complex situations (while running or shooting swingers).

Thus, for me, calling the shot means to be able to tell where the shot landed when it broke. Sort of scoring while shooting.

It appears that the whole thing has a different meaning purpose for you; care to 'splain?

[diehli]

I think there's some confusing of what it is and what it's goal is. Calling the shot is knowing where the bullet will be based on the primarily visual input (though a portion of that input is kinesthetic) you got when the shot broke.

The goal/reason that we call the shot is to know if where that bullet will land is acceptable for what we're doing. Through whatever other experiential information that we have and, thus, can use in analysis of that shot we can then determine whether that shot was good/bad, A/C/D, kill shot/graze, etc. Calling the shot, however, is just the beginning of this process. It's clearly difficult to disassociate this one process from the entirety of the process because the whole process happens so quickly.

[wide45]

Calling the shot is not the decision if the shot was bad or good. You can make that choice on a lot of factors, like what the recoil felt like. The best decision, the one you will get wrong least often, is based on what you know, like when you have seen it. Calling the shot is knowing where.

[Jake Di Vita]

I agree with that too. To go a step further I try to engrain whenever I'm shooting that no shot I make is good or bad. It is simply what it is. If I got down on myself for all the "bad" shots I've made I likely would have a hard time concentrating on the most important shot...which of course is the one I am currently taking.

[benos]

A good way to begin to learn what calling means is to ask this question (after the shot fired and before you looked at the target): Do I know where the shot went? Yes or no.

If yes, good work. If no, why not? Maybe you can't remember seeing anything clearly at the time the shot fired. Or maybe you felt you jerked it.

Yes or no is a good filter - it will get you looking in the right place.

Eventually, with careful practice, you'll get more yes's than no's. Then with more practice, the yes answers will become more and more precise.

be

[ArnisAndyz]

I'm really new to Practical shooting, but I'm starting to learn slowly what you guys are talking about with calling the shot.

For me. I think it a matter of TRUST in my shot. it seems its not only sight verification but a "feeling" or 'knowing" that you took a good shot. From practice, I know where my body mechanics and alignment should be when the shot breaks, AND I know where the sights should be, it just feels right. I have seen people at matches verifying thier shot visually be seeing the holes in the paper. To me, this isn't calling the shot, its living in the past. If I can feel its a good shot when I pull the trigger I can develop a flow and my transitions are smoother. When I "try" to call a shot I'm searching, focusing my energies on what I did instead of what I should be doing.

I can't do it consistently...yet, but I have felt it, usually on my best stages!

[caspian38]

Its when my subconscious and conscious CLICK letting me FEEL ... KNOW and SEE the exact point my bullet impacted ... If I can't call it ...I'm shooting above my ability.

Part of calling a shot is subconsciously and consciously taking into account trigger jerk ... footing ... everything around me... If the shot FELT WRONG...I better take another .... If it FELT RIGHT ...I don't even have to look.

Si

[wide45]

Calling the shot takes place as the gun fires, sometimes just before.

Not remembering what happened, but knowing what is.

Edited January 29, 2006 by wide45

[openshooter]

I think it's where you see the sight lift from after you shoot. If you look at the target to see where the bullet hole is you didn't call your shot. Shooting an open gun really helps with this.