gravedigger Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 HI guys,lots of guys are telling me to switch to a 40 instead of 45,i am actually getting one built with a para frame and slide,barsto bull bbl,mercury guid rod,trigger work to 2.5lb,and hard chrome,what will i see different with a 40 then a 45,is there actually less recoil in a 40 seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 2 reasons First, mag capacity. In a 140 mm mag, you can get more rounds of 40 S&W than 45 ACP. Second, the cost for components is far less in 40 S&W than 45 ACP. Far less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Can't agree more with warpspeed. I can start with 22 rounds in my Para, and reload to 20 round mags. I see this as a major advantage over any .45 shooter. I don't know if there's less recoil with a .40, because I've never seen enough difference between the two to matter. Of course I shoot a 230 grain bullet in the .45, and a 180 grain bullet in the .40, so they have a different "pulse" to begin with. Brass and bullets are a heck of a lot cheaper for the .40. This is reason alone to shoot the .40 instead of the .45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Can't agree more with warpspeed.I can start with 22 rounds in my Para, and reload to 20 round mags. I see this as a major advantage over any .45 shooter. +1 more recoil and components are a wash for me, but the mag capacity makes the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Personally, I find the .40 to shoot softer. I've compared 170PF loads between the two - .40 loaded w/ 180s, and .45 loaded w/ 230 - and the impression that I got was that the .40 felt softer and stayed flatter for me. Of course, the tuning of the guns in question had something to do with that, as well - the recoil spring in the .40 was about 4 pounds lighter. It's common for a lot of folks to shoot lead in .45 - if you make that choice, ammo cost won't be so significant a difference, especially if you pick up brass. The moly coated bullets are an in between choice that don't smoke as much as straight lead. All that said... .45 is probably a more forgiving cartridge to reload for, especially if you're not an experienced reloader. There's a lot of wiggle room with .45s. .40s can be very intolerant of mistakes. That's not to say it's dangerous - just that you need to make sure you're clear on what you're doing. Not that you can be stupid about loading .45, either, but... In Limited, capacity is obviously an issue, and makes a reasonable difference for most folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuck in C Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Magazine capacity. Also, the excitement of loading .40 caliber to major power with heavy bullets and fast powders: you never know when your gun might blow up! (The cynical comment of an old .45 shooter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I've shot both .40 (Limited) and .45 (Limited 10) intermixed the past month and I don't really see one as shooting "softer" than the other. The .45 is kind of like a slow "shove" and the .40 is more of a fast "punch." It's really a personal preference as to what you want the gun to feel like. With either caliber, you can tinker with loads and springs to change the feel. I'm fairly new to competition shooting, so my mind is probably on a lot more things than recoil when I'm shooting a match, so I may think differently down the road. Neither one really feels better over the other, at least at this point. I prefer reloading .45 for reasons Dave (XRE) already mentioned. There's a lot of room to play and I don't have to be picky about brass. I use just about any range scrap that will hold the bullet and reload 'em until they crack or get lost (usually the latter.) I'd be a lot pickier with the higher pressure .40. I like my 1911 .45 a lot and in most matches, it's fine even though I have to reload a time or two more than other shooters. At the recent Coleman "extreme round count" match, I opted for my .40 Glock 22 and 20 round mags! At steel matches, I still like to shoot my .45 and mag changes aren't an issue with the 5 shot strings (unless I'm having a REALLY bad day!) Dave teases me about how long it takes the steel to ring after the shot. He's just jealous because I've got time to grab a drink while I'm waiting for the bullet to get to the gongs on Outer Limits! I have been loading lighter 200gr. bullets lately for steel and using 230gr. for IPSC. The 230gr. feels better to me at major PF. One thing I do like is that very few other shooters are shooting .45 at local matches, which makes it a lot easier to find my brass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 In addition to mag capacity and cost mentioned above, I find the .45 has more torque and gives me slower splits if I actually see the sights before loosing the second shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang1 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Stuck N C, Good one and I pretty much agree. I've had the misfortune to be running the timer at two separate matches when a .40 blew up (Both Glocks and, fortunately, no injuries). I'm really surprised that I seem to be the only one around who has the best of both worlds, capacity and non-grenade ammo. Can we say 10MM? Same capacity as the .40. You have to load the 10MM DOWN to make major. With a load that might be "questionable" in a .40 the 10MM isn't even breathing hard. My own load is 4.5 of Clays (green container) behind a 200 gr. JFP. OAL 1.245". 172 PF and very soft shooting. No pressure signs. From the experienceof one of my buddies I would definitely NOT recommend this in a .40. He didn't blow the gun up but the brass was UGLY. And yes, if you saw it, I'm the guy who wrote the article "Why Not The 10MM?" in Front Sight magazine a few years back. 10MM, try it, you'll like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Stuck N C,Good one and I pretty much agree. I've had the misfortune to be running the timer at two separate matches when a .40 blew up (Both Glocks and, fortunately, no injuries). I'm really surprised that I seem to be the only one around who has the best of both worlds, capacity and non-grenade ammo. Can we say 10MM? Same capacity as the .40. You have to load the 10MM DOWN to make major. With a load that might be "questionable" in a .40 the 10MM isn't even breathing hard. My own load is 4.5 of Clays (green container) behind a 200 gr. JFP. OAL 1.245". 172 PF and very soft shooting. No pressure signs. From the experienceof one of my buddies I would definitely NOT recommend this in a .40. He didn't blow the gun up but the brass was UGLY. And yes, if you saw it, I'm the guy who wrote the article "Why Not The 10MM?" in Front Sight magazine a few years back. 10MM, try it, you'll like it. A question. Green container Clays? Can you be specific? Universal, International or plain Clays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Mag capacity cheap brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Mustang wrote: "I'm really surprised that I seem to be the only one around who has the best of both worlds, capacity and non-grenade ammo. Can we say 10MM? Same capacity as the .40. You have to load the 10MM DOWN to make major. With a load that might be "questionable" in a .40 the 10MM isn't even breathing hard. My own load is 4.5 of Clays (green container) behind a 200 gr. JFP. OAL 1.245". 172 PF and very soft shooting. No pressure signs. From the experienceof one of my buddies I would definitely NOT recommend this in a .40. He didn't blow the gun up but the brass was UGLY. And yes, if you saw it, I'm the guy who wrote the article "Why Not The 10MM?" in Front Sight magazine a few years back. 10MM, try it, you'll like it." Load .40 cal out to 1.220" or longer OAL and it pretty much IS 10mm. Its ceased to be ".40 S&W" since it is beyond the specified max SAAMI OAL and will not work in the majority of factory .40 cal guns (besides 1911/2011s). Moreover, we don't police brass or pick it up around here (VA/MD Section). 10mm brass is crazy expensive compared to .40 - which is nearly free. If 10mm were more popular & brass was free, I might be more into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) For me, 40 vs. 45 depends on which division you plan to shoot in. If you are competing in Limited then mag capacity dictates using the 40. In Limited 10 the magazine capacity is a non issue, therefore I prefer the 45 for the following reasons: 1. Recoil For any given power factor a heavier bullet will have lower muzzle energy and hence lower felt recoil. The formula is: E = 1/2( mV2)/gc or mv2/450,400 The physics of energy and recoil gives an edge to the 230 gr bullet over the 200 gr or 180 gr. 2. Bigger holes are easier to see. Sometimes I am unsure if I got two hits on the target, so I fire an extra shot to avoid the mike. As is often the case, scoring the targets reveals three holes which equates to wasted time. 3. Bigger holes score more points. I can't tell you how many times I had a 40 hit that was right on the line. Sometimes a 45 vs 40 is the difference between an Alpha and a Charlie. All other things being equal I just like the 45. I have documented many drills and my split times are identical with both guns. As mentioned before, component costs with the 45 are greater but it is more forgiving to reload for. The down side for me is lugging the ammo around in my range bag. By the end of a 12 stage day the 9mm is looking pretty good to me. Tls Edited January 26, 2006 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang1 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Merlin Orr, Just plain Clays. They all have different colored labels. Carlos, You're right about the cost of brass. When it first came out .40 was worth it's weight in gold. These days you can't hardly give it away. You can go to just about any outdoor range and pick just about as many as you want up off the ground. 10MM is expensive but with my relatively mild load it lasts forever. As an aside, my Mech-Tech carbine with a P.O. grip in 10MM is a laser beam out to 150 yards with factory equivalent loads usin 180 JHP's. Do you really leave once-fired brass on the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 + (like 11 now?) Mag capacity, reloading cost and the darn .45 cycles so slowly I find myself saying "When the #@%* is the slide going to get back into battery.......... oh there we go BANG" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mai Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) For me, 40 vs. 45 depends on which division you plan to shoot in.If you are competing in Limited then mag capacity dictates using the 40. In Limited 10 the magazine capacity is a non issue, therefore I prefer the 45 for the following reasons: 1. Recoil For any given power factor a heavier bullet will have lower muzzle energy and hence lower felt recoil. The formula is: E = 1/2( mV2)/gc or mv2/450,400 The physics of energy and recoil gives an edge to the 230 gr bullet over the 200 gr or 180 gr. Tls I also believe in that equation for long time, but it was opposite to my feeling. I tried 40-200 grain and 45-200 grain, the equation say that the recoil should be the same, but I feel softer for the 40, anyway at that moment, I didn’t trust my feeling. Finally I found that my believing wasn’t always true. If you compare the same bullet diameter, the equation is perfectly fit, let's say 45-150 grain and 45-230 grain. But if you compare different diameter like 40 to 45, there must be some more factor in the equation, but I don't know which factors to be considered, probably: friction, pressure, force, barrel weight, and etc. You may prove that by using the same recoil spring weight also same bullet weight for both 40 and 45, and investigate shape of shock buff after shooting for number of rounds, 40 always have longer life of shock buff. And even you use 14lb. spring for 40-180 grain, the shock buff still looking better than the one in 45-230 grain that uses 18lb. spring. Mai Edited February 2, 2006 by mai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) For me, the .40 is the way to go. Among other things in most cases I can't double charge a .40. (Yes, I know there are powders where I could, but with a .45 you can do it with almost ANY powder, and I have seen kaboom double charges with .45's. As many as I have seen case failures of .40's. In .40 if the case is overflowing withpowder, something ain't right. In .45 you could probably triple charge and not know it until you pulled the trigger) Udder-n-dat, what everyone else said. The shorter the mag the more you lose. In standard S_I's we were only getting 12 x .45 but 18 and even 19x.40. (yes, I still have two of the Braz mags that are 19+1 reloadable.) Limited 140mm legal in Para's I've heard of a best of 18x.45, and have seen 23x.40 (There's a guy who claims 24x.40). With an S_I almost everyone can get you a 20 x .40 mag, but not more than about 16-17x.45. Yes, 10mm gives identical ballistics, but I don't like to play with large primers and a small case head, and paying that much for brass, just sux. Down South where everyone pays for brass and every single one is picked up and cherished, it's less of a difference and I have shot some 10mm Standard guns that felt, well, just like a .40 with a comparable load. .45 will take a skosh more powder due to lower pressures / larger case volume, and brass costs more, but it's what you like. Having a new gun built I would go .40. Looking for a bargain, if the .45 has mags, and or you only want to cheat in L10 with a high cap, have at it. Edited February 1, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 A little off topic here, so pardon the thread drift... An acquaintance works in a building next to the IL State Police, where they have their indoor range. He said a buddy of his who works at that range threw away 8 cardboard boxes of .40 brass. He figured each box must have weighed about 60 to 80 pounds. Seems the guy was having a tough time gettin' 'em into the dumpster. Now if I could just track down that guy and give him my #. What a waste?!!! Might be enough incentive there to buy a .40 cal pistola. Chills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) or you only want to cheat in L10 with a high cap, have at it. That's me. L10 High Cap cheater. Tls P.S. I didn't write the rulebook. I only follow it. Edited February 3, 2006 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) "...if the .45 has mags, and or you only want to cheat in L10 with a high cap, have at it." Imagine that...... Back to the subject.... 45ACP and L10 regardless of frame manufacturer just seem to go together. For magazine capacity issues in Limited Division...40 is the way to go. Edited February 2, 2006 by Chuck D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 ok, so I was being a tad inciteful, heeheeheehee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 40 cal high cap 40 cal single stack The pistol that I started this game with back in the early 80"s 45 ACP It's all good!!!! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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