38stupid Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Looking for some advice.........Building a gun for 2006 I am looking for a Gilmore 1911 Scope mount / shroud. I called the factory and they are making another batch due out late Fall. (in theory) Is there another alternative to the Gilmore (at $300.00 - Ouch)? I have seen a polymer version but I didnt like the material bulging out around the mounting screws and the bottom edge. I am not to comfortable with plastics with the forces generated with these types of guns. In addition, in regards to the mover, is it best to get: 1) L.G. scope with lead adjuster ($300.00) 2) Stick Shift - ($250.00) 3) Do it by eye If you use the Gilmore schroud - do you need to use a 6" barrel to clear it? Does 9mm or 38 super make more sense with a comp gun? (Brass cost$$) Any other advice is welcome...... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I don't know if they still offer it, but Nowlin used to have a Bianchi shroud. They are at 918-342-0689 if you want to check with them. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) The Gilmore works great, and the 6" barrel is a good idea if you plan to comp the gun. Otherwise, you'll be getting a face-full of powder and gas. Most use a Stick Shift, as I do. Found that the LGM-35 with the lead built in didn't hold up like it should for me. I had 2 of those "take a crap" on me in 3 days at the Cup 2 years ago. The lead knob came unscrewed and fell off. Might be that I just had bad luck, so I won't bad-mouth them too much! With the Stick Shift, you'll need to mill off the rail notches on the shroud and take about .090" off the front portion of the stick Shift to make it all mate up nicely, then drill the shroud to mount the Shift. Mill off the shift to the length of the shroud rail, leaving a ledge on the back part to create a recoil notch. So far as the caliber goes, if you're already set up for "38stupid" as your handle indicates, go with what you know, and leave the 9mm alone! The 1911 was built around an OAL of 1.250 originally, and that matches the 38. Works for the shooters I know, so again, why mess with success. "If it's good enough for Dougie & Bruce" who are we to question that?! Alan~^~ Edited October 18, 2005 by Alan550 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Bob I have in my possession a Gilmore shroud with a mover base already fitted. I am sure that it would work for you and the price would be good, not like buying them separately. If you are interested I will put you in touch with its owner and you can work out a price. GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 If that is the shroud I saw when I was at Grant's, you had better get hold of it. I use the same mover base and they are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38stupid Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 If that is the shroud I saw when I was at Grant's, you had better get hold of it. I use the same mover base and they are awesome. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Done... I sent a PM to GrantJ. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38stupid Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 I am hooked for sure. I shot my first match (Cup 05) and had a ball. (except for gun problems). ICASE / Bianchi Cup what ever - I am in. Here is what I am thinking of building... Please comment! 1) Caspian frame 1911 single stack frame - milled with nowlin cut - drilled and tapped for Weigand / Glimore mount. (already done) 2) 38 Super Caspian Slide 6" - I will lighten up. 3) 38 Super Barrel - Unsure of at this point - AET? Kart? bull or bushing? 4) Light 3 port comp - whos? Ti? 5) Gimore shroud 6) Stick shift for mover 7) L.G. Scope with 4 moa dot? 8) Magazines ? 9) Anything else that you guys found to be better? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 ANother option is the Red Buff / Hiett Technologies Shroud. We have one on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 photo of gun with Hiett Technologies Shroud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 3) 38 Super Barrel - Unsure of at this point - AET? Kart? bull or bushing? Brazos recently posted that they had some 6 inch barrels on sale, I believe. Check out the Dealer Section of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Bob, You might want to consider a prone pad of some description to get the gun higher for prone shooting. Warren Moore, the Stick-Shift guy, has some, and EGW (George Smith) makes one too. I'd be afraid of a Ti comp. I've seen the aluminum ones crack, and Ti is more brittle than that. Just my $.02. Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Bob, If you haven't purchased a 6 inch slide then I would advise against it. Doug uses a Commander length slide but most of us opt for a lightened 5 inch. The key is to keep the slide mass as light as possible so that the gun will function with light loads. My current set up is a Les Baer frame and slide. The slide has been lightened to around 9 ounces. I use a 6" Kart barrel with an aluminum 3 port comp. The comp is from EGW and like Alan has said we have had a few crack but I have never had that problem with many thousand rounds put through it. EGW recently told us that the ports need to be relieved so that there are no sharp edges. My pistol is Accu railed and will fuction with loads below the power factor. The only mags that we use are Wilsons with 1 or 2 coils cut off. Mag problems are non existent. I've tried Metalform but had many problems. We use 6" barrels and the 3 port comp with a bushing to get the gases away from the front of the shroud. If the ports are too close you will get a blast that travels under the shroud and back in your face. Prone pads are a must and if you can get you head down low enough the lower the better. This way the heel of your hands make contact with the mat and make the pistol more stable. If you need any more help just let us know. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Another option too is the overall pistol design that Ross Carter has done. It's a super light and fast design that is incredibly accurate. Another option too is I've seen folks zero their scopes (like an Aimpoint) and then use the zero adjustment for the lead compensation on the mover event. Just a thought too. Good luck with the base. Didn't know that Heitt/Red Buff made a shroud....that's too cool! SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic 249th MP Detachment (EACF) Camp Humphreys, ROK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPiatt Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I'd concurr about sticking with a 5" slide. Adding weight to the end of the barrel is what causes functioning problems. If you have a 6" barrel, that's another 1" of barrel weight and you might be forced to use a Ti or aluminum comp. The Ti adds cost while the aluminum will add maintainance issues. Aluminum comps will have to be replaced every 5000-8000 rounds or so. Both of my guns are 5" slides, lightened by Nowlin. A Nowlin 5" barrel and standard steel 3 port comp. The gun functions fine with 115 gr. Sierra bullets doing 1100 - 1150 fps. 5.2 gr. of Hodgdon HP-38. I like the front of the gun heavier so I added added the tungstun 6" guide rod. The guide rod weight doesn't recipricate so it won't affect the cycling. good luck, Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38stupid Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Both of my guns are 5" slides, lightened by Nowlin. A Nowlin 5" barrel and standard steel 3 port comp. The gun functions fine with 115 gr. Sierra bullets doing 1100 - 1150 fps. 5.2 gr. of Hodgdon HP-38. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bruce, Does your setup use a barrel bushing or taper cone comp? I see that Nowlin offers threaded barrels per special request. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Bruce, I would say that replacing an aluminum comp at 8k rounds would be neccessary if we were shooting major pf loads. My comp has better than 20k rounds through it and the ports are as smooth as a baby's butt. The six inch barrel doesn't seem to be causing a problem since the pistol will function with very light loads and an 8 pound spring. I couldn't do that with a steel comp and 5 inch barrel. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mover480 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Here's another link for a shroud. This one is removable but can be reinstalled with no change in zero. Designed and used by an Action Pistol shooter from Texas via Germany - Roland Croes. Not sure what place he came in, but he shot 1912-164X at the 05 Cup. Check it out. RoCo Firearm Technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38stupid Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 Bob,The key is to keep the slide mass as light as possible so that the gun will function with light loads. My current set up is a Les Baer frame and slide. The slide has been lightened to around 9 ounces. I use a 6" Kart barrel with an aluminum 3 port comp. The comp is from EGW and like Alan has said we have had a few crack but I have never had that problem with many thousand rounds put through it. EGW recently told us that the ports need to be relieved so that there are no sharp edges. My pistol is Accu railed and will fuction with loads below the power factor. Kevin A few questions: 1) Do you use a bushing setup instead of a taper comp. (I would assume so) 2) Which comp from EGW do you use? (3 port alum ?) Is there someone at EGW that would know about this setup / comp if I called? I had my old Para frame kit gun railed and now it wont run unless I use @155pf loads. I talked to Doug (the rail guy I used) and he said that it had to be shot in. I had 4000 rounds thru it and it still didnt run. I finally looked at it closely and found that the slide had been lowered so much that I need a super short custom link make. I have hand lapped the slide to frame and still the gun does not run like it should. I have friends who have had no problems with the rails ?!? Go figure...... Thanks, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 (edited) My Nowlin Bianchi gun uses a Nowlin 3 port cone comp (taper). The one they sell. I'm pretty sure Bruce's Bianchi guns use the same setup but he may have a bushing barrel in his. Roland Croes used to shoot a Sig P210 set up for the 'Cup and I don't think his 210 had that mount on it but I last saw it in '02. Edited October 24, 2005 by SRT Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I had a similar problem when I sent one of my pistols back to get re-railed. The gun would run without the shroud but as soon as I tightened one screw on the shroud it would stop. I tried a load thet would flatten the primer and it still wouldn't run. I can only assume that something happened to the frame. Needless to say the pistol is now in the scrap heap. I use the bushing set up. The comp is a generic 3 port aluminum comp. The common questions that we get are the thread pitch and if we want the back of the comp relieved for the bushing. The thread pitch that we use is 575x40. We don't have the back cut for the bushing because we use a jam nut to help hold the comp. We haven't had a problem with railing the gun the first time. We always buy gun parts instead of buying a complete gun and then converting it. When we receive the slide and frame the two will not go together. Our gunsmith will do all the slide work and then it will be sent to get railed. He has built 7 of them this way now and it seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 ON the comp. My AP gun is almost like kevins except for the barrel..My EGW alum. comp busted at the Texas State Match. It had been cracked for about 7 or 8 k rounds man I was hoping it would last a few more...It had about 10 in it arleady. All that pratice Kevin put me through that week... and i still shot like a girl!!!! NO offense ladies....!!!Vera Koo kicked my butt...But I am a rookie and old too....tired eyes.... good excuse rite.. And Vera can shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a nice lady... I had a new one same kind insatlled with the edges releived, EGW says that is the trick.. Man wish they had told us in the beginning...But Kevin keeps his clean as a whistle and I didnt so that is very importatnt rookie mistake here I did clean mine but Kevin shines his ... so more work now... Anyway I took Kevin's advise and built my gun on a Forged Les Bear frame and slide and glad i did it is an awsome gun... If I can ever shoot as good as it does I will do cart wheels across the parkin lot.... Yea rite... Bones too old for that but never say never.. So hope this helps Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckFoo Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 ...Warren Moore, the Stick-Shift guy... I've been trying to find this gentleman's contact info on the web, but to no avail. Can anyone help me? Website, email, phone? I'd really like to pick up one of his mover bases. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Warren Moore's number is 913-422-8966. Leroy told me that he just tried to order one and Warren said he wouldn't have any until Feb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Sorry I got to this thread late. From hearing about your rails problem it makes me wonder if they were done by Doug Jones. Bob Krieger (who invented the accurail) shares a shop with him. Bob did my rails and then charged me to "refit" the barrel. The slide wouldnt even go back and forth with the barrel in after this refitting. What we did to mine was take a lot off the top of the barrel hood and got the shortest link we could find and made the hole eggshaped. It has run like a top for a long time since then. I have heard wonderful things about both Doug and Bob's work, but it seems like they may have a quirk in how they fit barrels after accurailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Mike, Where were you two years ago when I needed ya? Doug did the rails in my gun both times. The difference was that all we sent him the first time was just the slide and frame. The barrel was then fit to that set up. The second time the gun would run without the shroud but wouldn't with one screw tightened with the shroud on it. We tried a smaller link and then I gave up on it. Now I don't care how loose it gets I will not get my current gun re railed. The hell of it was the old gun still shot well but I didn't want to have the groups open up in the middle of the season. I just sent my current gun off to get it hard chromed. With my luck it will never run again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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