Pawl catches cylinder release (Super GP100)

[skillzthatlightlyinjure]

Hey there - first time poster here,

 

Just picked up a Ruger Super GP100. I noticed an occasional "catch" during dry fire and sometimes the trigger would not pull back at all (or required more force). I am also unable to pull the hammer back into SA without first depressing the trigger a little bit.

 

After a field strip and some testing I discovered that the pawl is catching the cylinder release.  

 

Interesting notes: 

- Any leftward lateral pressure during the trigger squeeze, pawl will catch 100% of the time  

- Straight pull will catch occasionally. 

- If I push forward on the front half of the cylinder release, it clears the pawl and never catches (video here). 

 

No parts have any visible burs or manufacturing defects that my semi-trained eye can see. Possible solutions i've considered: find a way to increase return spring tension on cylinder release or round off the pawl?

 

Thoughts? Experience with this? I have a video of the pawl catching, but file size is beyond limit.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by skillzthatlightlyinjure
add video links

[alecmc]

@Alaskan454 can probably help you with this one. He knows his way around a ruger. 

[IHAVEGAS]

Any reason not to have Ruger repair under warranty? 

[skillzthatlightlyinjure]

Outside of avoiding the inconvenience and wanting the satisfaction of fixing it myself, no. That will likely be in my begrudging future.

 

 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, skillzthatlightlyinjure said:

Outside of avoiding the inconvenience and wanting the satisfaction of fixing it myself, no. That will likely be in my begrudging future.

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense to me, that probably should worry you a little. 

[Alaskan454]

On 6/4/2020 at 10:08 PM, alecmc said:

@Alaskan454 can probably help you with this one. He knows his way around a ruger. 

@alecmc @skillzthatlightlyinjure I certainly can, that could be caused by two things.  The tip of the pawl that engages the ratchet might be too long (probably not the issue), or the angle of the pawl with the respect to the trigger assembly is too large (probably the issue).  I have rebuilt/refit many GP and SRH Rugers, unless you plan to do a lot of pawl work on them I'd send it back to Ruger and have them fix it.  They have great CS, and have paid for shipping both ways in my experience.  Interestingly enough, whoever fit that pawl did err in the right direction.  All they need to do is remove a small amount of metal and do repeated function checks until it's good. Tedious, but the right way to do it.

[IHAVEGAS]

The pawl on my supergp100 started under rotateing the cylinder after some dry fire and a bit of polishing. Tended to catch at the same location 90 percent of the time. Assume it was borderline on day 1 and went south with a bit of break in.

 

Ordered a new pawl from midway and found out when it got here today that the super uses a taller pawl than a regular gp100. s#!t. There are some other trigger assembly differences when you compare the super to the Mcarbo tuning video. 

 

Stretched the original pawl tip by wacking it with a hammer and punch. This fixed the under rotateing but apparently added enough length to allow interference with the star, closing the cylinder works fine or fails depending on how the cylinder is rotated. Should be a quick fix tomorrow.

 

For what it is worth. 

 

Anyone know of a slick video for pawl fitting? My OCD likely won't tolerate my running the gun without installing a new not banged on part.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by IHAVEGAS

[Alaskan454]

The two biggest issues with pawl fitment on a Ruger DA relate to the same fitment area.  The portion of the pawl which rests on the trigger assembly determines the angle of approach to the cylinder and pawl window. If you don't remove enough metal it won't engage and can jam the revolver.  If you remove too much it causes slow timing or the inability to close cylinder when the pawl is reset.  

 

A S&W is no different,  but poor fitment simply causes different side effects.  I am a firm believer that pawl/hand fitting is one of the more time consuming steps to execute properly.  I've gone so far as to hand file each ratchet in order to make my guns time properly.  Not everyone shares the same attention to detail.

[Styro]

I had mine tig welded and remachined. They're not always made tight enough

[IHAVEGAS]

8 hours ago, Alaskan454 said:

The two biggest issues with pawl fitment on a Ruger DA relate to the same fitment area.  The portion of the pawl which rests on the trigger assembly determines the angle of approach to the cylinder and pawl window. If you don't remove enough metal it won't engage and can jam the revolver.  If you remove too much it causes slow timing or the inability to close cylinder when the pawl is reset.  

 

A S&W is no different,  but poor fitment simply causes different side effects.  I am a firm believer that pawl/hand fitting is one of the more time consuming steps to execute properly.  I've gone so far as to hand file each ratchet in order to make my guns time properly.  Not everyone shares the same attention to detail.

 

Please PM if you ever expand on this either on YouTube or with pictures & etc, I would love to see 'pawl fitting for dummies'. 

 

[skillzthatlightlyinjure]

Thanks everyone for the replies. @Alaskan454 and @IHAVEGAS- your detailed information is very much appreciated. 

 

After a phone call with Ruger and a conversation with a local smith, I decided to send it back to Ruger. Process was painless and free, and I got the revolver back within 8 days. 

 

The invoice states they did a pawl adjustment, and it works like a dream. After another field strip, I could see the change, and, interestingly enough, it is much easier to get the trigger assembly back into the frame as well (a symptom of the problem no doubt). 

 

I plan to put enough rounds through this thing to break it one day so I will post an update if I do anything remarkable. 

 

Thanks again!

[IHAVEGAS]

Took a look at a friends 9mm Super GP100 while doing match set up today.

Irritating, frustrating. 

When the timing is right there is a lot of cylinder rotation before the cylinder stop travels back up, night and day different than my gun. I thought perhaps that they had been required to cut the timing a little close when they made a 6 shot design accommodate an 8 shot cylinder, nope. 

Not sure how mine could have ever left the factory like it was, once you know how it should look the difference is huge and obvious. 

 

Mine is going back to Ruger to make right. Fingers crossed that my turn around time will be closer to 8 days than 80. 

 

OP - I am delighted that you ended up with a good result!

[KrymSIX]

@IHAVEGAS when we had to send my wife's GP Match Champ back to Ruger, also for pawl and cylinder issues they had it back to us within a week. Granted shipping is slowed up some for USPS and UPS. 

 

I believe Ruger issues FedEx labels and will cover the cost of shipping both ways as well as any repairs. 

 

IMO it's the real reason to go Ruger over S &W. Both will have some revolvers with issues but you won't wait 8 weeks to get it back and then have the same or a new issue with the Ruger. They seem to take their CS very seriously which is a welcome change from some other companies. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by KrymSIX
Correct typo

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, KrymSIX said:

@IHAVEGAS when we had to send my wife's GP Match Champ back to Ruger, also for pawl and cylinder issues they had it back to us within a week. Granted shipping is slowed up some for USPS and UPS. 

 

I believe Ruger issues FedEx labels and will cover the cost of shipping both ways as well as any repairs. 

 

IMO it's the real reason to go Ruger over S &W. Both will have some revolvers with issues but you won't wait 8 weeks to get it back and then have the same or a new issue with the Ruger. They seem to take their CS very seriously which is a welcome change from some other companies. 

 

That is great to read. Shot a USPSA match with a bottom feeder today, very good time, but I'm anxious to shoot with a wheel gun. 

[IHAVEGAS]

So far on warranty repairs.

 

Ruger lets you know what is going on every step of the way without you needing to ask, this for a gun sent in last week:

 

Dear Valued Ruger Customer,

Please be advised that your Ruger firearm has been transferred to a technician for evaluation.

We will email you again when service is complete.

If you have any questions about your firearm, please contact Customer Service at 336-949-5200.
Please do not respond to this email, as it is sent from an unmonitored mailbox.



Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.

 

 

With Smith and Wesson (gun sent in in March) they do not tell you jack s#!t without being prodded (they did confirm receipt of the gun though). When you do prod them you get a fuzzy answer and end up not knowing anything of interest (i.e. an idea of when you might ever see the gun again). 

[IHAVEGAS]

Just received from S&W (4th inquiry).

 

Dear xxxx,

Your firearm is in the shipping department waiting for a label to be processed. It is serviced in the order it came in. Please keep an eye on your email. We will be emailing your a tracking number when its on its way out.  

Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

Regards, Felicia

 

In other words, still not telling me s#!t, not even an estimate of when the gun will ship, exactly the same thing I was told last time.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by IHAVEGAS

[IHAVEGAS]

Just received from S&W (5th inquiry)

 

Subject: RMR xxxxxxxxx

xxxx, 

thank you for the inquiry, we apologize for the delay and inconvenience, this being a firearm, we have a lengthy process. we cannot speak for other manufacturers, keep an eye out on your email, we will send you tracking information when it does leave the facility. 

Thank you and Have a Great Day!

Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

Regards, Aurelina

 

 

 

 

On 06/16 the completed gun was in their shipping department according to their previous emails. How could it be possible that a major company can not pack and ship a gun, or even give an estimate of when they will, over the course of 9 days?? Am wondering if they have slowed down shipping of customer return guns in order to improve cash flow temporarily, only thing I can think of. 

 

 

[MikeBurgess]

4 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Just received from S&W (5th inquiry)

 

Subject: RMR xxxxxxxxx

xxxx, 

thank you for the inquiry, we apologize for the delay and inconvenience, this being a firearm, we have a lengthy process. we cannot speak for other manufacturers, keep an eye out on your email, we will send you tracking information when it does leave the facility. 

Thank you and Have a Great Day!

Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

Regards, Aurelina

 

 

 

 

On 06/16 the completed gun was in their shipping department according to their previous emails. How could it be possible that a major company can not pack and ship a gun, or even give an estimate of when they will, over the course of 9 days?? Am wondering if they have slowed down shipping of customer return guns in order to improve cash flow temporarily, only thing I can think of. 

 

 

probably it was in shipping 9 days ago as in still sitting in shipping and reviving after arriving shortly after you sent it to them, and they were yet to create a work order label for it 

 

the more ambiguous you make the statements the more you can tell part truths that sound better than they really are.

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said:

the more ambiguous you make the statements the more you can tell part truths that sound better than they really are.

 

Yep.

 

Called and talked with a helpful lady. All they need to do is box and label the damn thing, this " this being a firearm, we have a lengthy process" was a lie. 

 

They are blaming everything on Covid but if it takes weeks to get a box and a label they must have one heck of a mountain of repaired guns to process, either that or the "shipping department" is some handicapped dude working part time. 

[revoman]

36 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Yep.

 

Called and talked with a helpful lady. All they need to do is box and label the damn thing, this " this being a firearm, we have a lengthy process" was a lie. 

 

They are blaming everything on Covid but if it takes weeks to get a box and a label they must have one heck of a mountain of repaired guns to process, either that or the "shipping department" is some handicapped dude working part time. 

And what is wrong with the handicap may I ask. Lots of veterans out there. 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, revoman said:

And what is wrong with the handicap may I ask. Lots of veterans out there. 

 

Nothing at all, and I also have nothing bad to say about part time jobs. 

My intent was to suggest that there must be some impediments to productivity. Should have been a bit more sensitive. 

[MikeBurgess]

2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Yep.

 

Called and talked with a helpful lady. All they need to do is box and label the damn thing, this " this being a firearm, we have a lengthy process" was a lie. 

 

They are blaming everything on Covid but if it takes weeks to get a box and a label they must have one heck of a mountain of repaired guns to process, either that or the "shipping department" is some handicapped dude working part time. 

Maybe they have a guy that works only a few days a month to do the repair shipping, because it just gets in the way of the product shipping guys shipping stuff that makes money. 

Seems like a really bad system that is likely to loose customers guns but hey what do I know.

 

 

[pskys2]

3 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

Maybe they have a guy that works only a few days a month to do the repair shipping, because it just gets in the way of the product shipping guys shipping stuff that makes money. 

Seems like a really bad system that is likely to loose customers guns but hey what do I know.

 

 

Or maybe they have a full time staff and with the quality of some of their stuff they are swamped with returns!?

Most likely the real reason is some time consuming minutia bureaucratic governmental corporate legalese issues that take as long to navigate, proportionally, as it took to write this?

But then how long did it take for the last gun sent to a name gunsmith? 

I'm just happy when I get one back, not lost, and fixed right!  But it is frustrating, scary, sad, tinged with feelings of loss and despair when one of my prized objects is out of my hands.

[IHAVEGAS]

Update.

 

Ruger, sent the gun to them a bit under two weeks ago, they sent emails - 'gun received" - "work started on gun" - "gun shipped" , should receive it today.

 

Smith and Wesson, sent the gun to them in March, they sent zero updates, per my prodding with phone calls and emails the gun was completed and in their shipping department on 06/16, got a shipping notice today (07/01). My suspicious mind wonders if they sat on some guns until the next month to delay paying shipping costs in June.