Airgunning

[BigDave]

Spiked - what do you think is in the hands of the guy who is airgunning? Do you think they are holding their unloaded pistol? - Dave

[Flexmoney]

Spiked,

Kicking somebody in the groin for airgunning at a shooting match would be like running somebody over at a mud bog for carring a tow strap/chain. They are performing a predictable activity for the event that they are attending. No biggie.

So, how hard is it to hover an RC Helio inverted?

[Duane Thomas]

I'm wondering if it would be a totally stupid idea to headshot all the targets? I am not used to the round circle in the center of the target is less visable, and I know I can hit headshots.

Probably. The head box is a considerably smaller target (6" box vs. 8" circle) and the penalty for missing is much greater. Pull a shot 1" to the side of the 8" circle it's a 1/2 second penalty. Do the same thing on the head box - and don't make it up - it's a 2-1/2 second penalty.

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks Duane,

The way I was looking at it is that if I miss a head shot at 7 yards I should be spanked anyway If I'm shooting at the circle (not shooting the IDPA targets much) I can't afford the .5 penalty anyway and the top of the targets fits nice in my sight picture. I figure that if I keep all my splits at .19-.21 I should be fine. I know I can do that in the head at 7 meters easy, especially in 9mm.

The circles on the targets at 15 yards I've shot before were super faint, no easy reference to aim at and I dropped too many shots low. Maybe they were bad targets or maybe it is easy to see the -0 zone when you are closer. Thanks for the insights.

I might just do it for "fun/cool" factor if I it is legal

[Clay1]

Go have fun with the head shots but as an old time fox hunter once told me about hitting vitals on those moving reds "there is a whole lot of air around that fur". In other words those easy head shots have a way of not being so easy when under match pressure and trying to keep .2 splits.

It's harder to explain than show on a target but where the shoulder of the targets transition to the main sides of the target (the lower point of the shoulder) is where the top of the down zero zone starts. Get use to where it is and have fun at your first few matches.

Rick

[Ted Murphy]

What I am saying is, that for example, if I was walking through a 'clear the house' scenario, and someone came around the corner and by accident an 'air gun' was sticking in my face, my reaction is going to be at very least to quickly move my foot to his groin (knowing d4mn well he doesn't have a loaded gun).  Is it so far of a stretch to understand that someone might act like that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can admit someone could act like that.

But I will not consider that a reasonable and prudent person would lash out like that.

Ted

[Crusher]

Exposed/partial target center hits are no problem at out to 10-12 yds (most times the perfs on IDPA targets are visible to that distanse) IF there is T-shirt/clothing to cover the lower down -0, I normally will pull heads regardless of distance the added .10 on the split (if it is even that much) is worth the time when considering a down -1 (half a second penalty) for bad shot placement outside the lower down -0 scoring on the target that the lower scoring zone is covered.

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks for the "on topic" replies, good stuff.

[dirtypool40]

Spiked,

Kicking somebody in the groin for airgunning at a shooting match would be like running somebody over at a mud bog for carring a tow strap/chain.  They are performing a predictable activity for the event that they are attending.  No biggie.

So, how hard is it to hover an RC Helio inverted?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ROFLMAO

nice one Flex.

[Flexmoney]

I'm not trying to be a wise-azz. Just hoping to point out that pointing at the targets at a match isn't something that should be deemed a threat.

I think we all need a group hug.

[oct_97]

Airgunning is not allowed in IDPA because USPSA allows it.

[tightloop]

Somebody's going to get spanked for that remark..

[dirtypool40]

Ok, I give up. This will be the last thing I post in these threads for a while. We are beating our heads against the same problems and differences in attitudes not philosophies, but attitudes, and I am getting tired of trying to help folks that are not interested in improving a sport with great potential.

Airgunning is not allowed in IDPA because USPSA allows it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right of course, and there's several other, more important areas where IDPA chose to re-invent the wheel, and since round was taken they opted for square.

It's too bad that the hard lessons and evolution of 30+ years of practical pistol competition was ignored when IDPA was started.

Worse still is the combative attitude that is fostered from page 1 of the LGB. I really think that is the root of the problem, not the equipment, the shape of the target, or the power factor. It's an attitude. And like most attitude problems they trickle down from the very top.

Too often I hear dogmatic catch phrases (Like he earned those penalties for example) instead of a willingness to listen to constructive criticism and offered solutions.

We ain't making progress until the cartel let's us.

[spiked]

Spiked,

Kicking somebody in the groin for airgunning at a shooting match would be like running somebody over at a mud bog for carring a tow strap/chain.  They are performing a predictable activity for the event that they are attending.  No biggie.

So, how hard is it to hover an RC Helio inverted?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep I would have to agree with you flex monkey. But that isnt what I said, it is just what it keeps getting twisted into. So now that I know my personal opinion is wrong (how could I possibly have formed my own opinion?) I will just drop it.

Hovering inverted is extremly hard. It was a life long goal for me and I have almost quit flying since achieving it. Flying an RC helicopter in general is often compared to balancing a marble on a beach ball. Flying it upside down is a magnitude of difficulty beyond that.

Peace.

[banjobart]

I thought that we can't airgun because it looks too gay.

[spiked]

OK, I don't know why I'm still at it, but after the insults I feel I need to try and explain myself one more time, as I obviously have not done a good job of it so far.

Last trip to the local IDPA match my friend could not go so I was by myself and I basically knew absolutely no one there. I have no idea which guy has been shooting for years, which guy picked up a gun for the first time today, or the worst case, which guy picked up a gun today for the first time and is acting like he has been shooting for years.

So I'm sitting out a pasting, having done my share earlier, and there is guy walking around air gunning. No biggy I'm not anywhere close to him, but it's an obvious violation. I watch the guy some more an realize he never pastes, he airguns every stage, and he has his finger on the trigger most of the time when he's moving during his string. I formed an immediate distrust. Whether or not I am justified is irrelevant, I don't trust him, he is registered in my mind as an unsafe shooter.

Now my feeling on airgunning being a safety issue is specifically addressed at that person sticking an air gun in my face. I am going to react, and I'm not 100% sure how, but self defense seems reasonable because I know this guy is not safe. I'm not talking about getting up and walking over to him, i'm talking about a specific instance where someone you don't know and don't trust sticks his 'airgun' in your face. And I will further qualify that with anything closer than 2 feet from my face and I don't know if it's a gun or not, this is a comon condition and why I carry reading glasses.

The SO in our group, after the 3rd stage told him to stop, "it bothers the other shooters" to which I thanked him and agreed - although I guess in retrospect it bothered me in a different way than apparently everyone else.

What can I say, I am a safety freak - I was thinking that would be a good thing in shooting sports.

[ima45dv8]

Spiked,

Instead of feeling set upon, try to understand what we are seeing in your posts.

You say again and again that even if you know the guy ain't pointing anything but his "air gun" at you, you are going to react with physical violence. You said before, and again imply that your reaction will involve an assault upon this person.

Could it be that we are not on the same page as to what an "air gun" is? Are you under the impression that everyone at USPSA matches has some 'device' that resembles a firearm in their bag that they use to conduct a walk-through of the stage? Believe me; it ain't so. I've not seen anything like that in the 5 years I've been involved.

If you do indeed think you are justified in striking someone who has only their fingers pointed at you, I can easily envision someone, possibly you, leaving the range under flashing lights. Whether they are red or blue will depend on the guy who gets assaulted.

Edited October 7, 2005 by ima45dv8

[Crusher]

Now my feeling on airgunning being a safety issue is specifically addressed at that person sticking an air gun in my face.

I am confused as all get out now

Can I get one of these " air guns" .......Holloween is coming up and I have a plan

Now on a serious note:

If this dude was "air gunning" an IDPA stage at a "Sanctiuoned" IDPAA local level match the RO should have issued ONE WARNING and on the SECOND OFFENSE ISSUED A PROCEEDURAL PENALTY..............and so.

This would not be done for "saftey" reasons it would be done because the rules prohibit this action (air gunning). Additonally if the "air gunner" was moving with his finger inside the trigger guard that IS A SAFTEY VIOLATION and the RO should have picked up on that AS A SAFTEY VIOLATION and acted accordingly. Sounds like the place you shoot IDPA is not in tune with the game rules or is lax in the enforcement of the rules.

[Nik Habicht]

I think the original question's been answered.....