Blitkrieg buffer failure

[HoMiE]

13 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

If the buffer system requires a very firm grip (held tightly into the shoulder?) I feel it may not be too good for competition.

 

I keep my PCC setup where it is reliable no matter how its held.  A very sharp lean on the weak side may require you fire the shot holding the gun in both hands and the buttstock nowhere near my shoulder (thank you Mister laser). Same with some low ports.

 

Its a total package.  Buffer + spring + spacers (if desired) + ammo need to function 100% of the time.

Agreed. 

 

I think the issue my brother had was he was holding it in pocket almost on his bicep and his arm was moving back. I had him square up to target and hold stock more into pec muscle and it works better. 

[bwikel]

9 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

Agreed. 

 

I think the issue my brother had was he was holding it in pocket almost on his bicep and his arm was moving back. I had him square up to target and hold stock more into pec muscle and it works better. 

It shouldn't matter where you hold it the gun should cycle even if it is not on your shoulder, arm, hip ect..... He should be able to hold it completely away from his body and it still cycle. 

[Bwillis]

It’s the equivalent of limp wristing a pistol, my setup would do it with the stock all the way collapsed or 1 click from collapsed. As I wouldn’t  hold it firm or have it pressed against my body. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Bwillis

[HoMiE]

46 minutes ago, bwikel said:

It shouldn't matter where you hold it the gun should cycle even if it is not on your shoulder, arm, hip ect..... He should be able to hold it completely away from his body and it still cycle. 

Have you ever shot a benelli inertia shotgun? You can hold those loosely and get them to not cycle. Same concept depending on how you setup your recoil system. 

[bwikel]

2 hours ago, HoMiE said:

Have you ever shot a benelli inertia shotgun? You can hold those loosely and get them to not cycle. Same concept depending on how you setup your recoil system. 

Yes I know how an inertia shotgun works, blowback PCC's are not the same thing. You don't need inertia to unlock the bolt of a PCC like an inertia shotgun. 

[HoMiE]

1 hour ago, bwikel said:

Yes I know how an inertia shotgun works, blowback PCC's are not the same thing. You don't need inertia to unlock the bolt of a PCC like an inertia shotgun. 

Not saying the lockup mechanism is the same but when you start to try and short stroke and use heavier springs, you introduce the human element. I have let people shoot my gun and it won’t run until I say, here hold the stock on your pectoral area. My pcc will run if I hold it only with my hands but you have to hold it firm or have it solid against your body.

Edited March 15, 2019 by HoMiE

[MoRivera]

A little recent experience.....may help some, may not....

 

So I think I've finally settled on the best 'combination' of recoil management and cycle speed/less dot bounce, for my setup.  It happened when I had to switch back to an A5 buffer tube and pin a collapsible stock on.  Keep in mind that this is with factory Blazer Brass 115-gr.  It's best described with this rough diagram that I made earlier in the thread......

 

 

 

What I had been using before was configuration #1 (top), and settled on that as a combination that provided both cushioning and quick enough dot recovery, but also still allowed LRBHO as I sometimes have to stick to 10-rd magazines in this state (CT).  I then tried the same with a Blitzkrieg 5005, which is about an ounce heavier but the same 'carbine' length for a .308 with collapsible stock.  Didn't notice much difference.  Now that I had to change tubes to the A5, I went with configuration #3 above (second from bottom), which essentially achieves the same thing as the first configuration because of the added spacer with the same overall stroke length/travel....only difference being that there isn't as much spring pre-load (only 3/4" less).

 

With other loads like slower 124- and 147-gr's, I didn't like how much slower the overall cycle felt compared to the quicker but albeit heavier-kicking 115 factories.  The slower stuff, even though it kicked softer, seemed to raise muzzle more as things 'came around'.  With the newer configuration with just that little bit less of spring pre-load, it's kind of a happy medium.  It's a bit softer on the shoulder, and the speed of cycle seems just a tad slower, but not so much that the dot takes longer to settle.  This is, so far, the best feeling and handling combination that I've tried since I put this PCC together.  I've even tried some very soft, barelty-minor-PF stuff and it felt so light that I was wondering if I cycled completely...but just went through the mags with no issues.

[Orbit]

Guys,

 

I have this PWS PCC 9.5" Barrel that I bought a year ago and it is just now that I will be able to run it to actual competition. I just practice the other day for 550 rounds (round nose 124 and flat nose 147g). I have 133-137pf, 1.120" AOL.

 

Before, i had issue with FTF mostly at the end of the last round from the mag (glock mags) or the projectile will tilt upward from the last round too.

 

Temporary Solutions:

1. I short stroke the BCG by putting/tuning quarters as spacers inside the original PWS buffer tube. I worked it out until tuned to just $1 of quarters (Started from $1.75 or 7 quarters).

2. I use the dremel to put a bit of a ramp on the barrel where marks are visible from the nose of the projectiles during the action.

 

The rifle ran good and without any hickups except for sometimes the BCG is not locking back when the mag is empty. I had a sore right shoulder too due to snappy recoil.

 

When I got home, i found the following:

1. Glock mags spring were weakened from the day of practice

2. The quarters were all bended/deformed from the center.

3. The PWS enhanced rachet for the buffer tube castle nut was a loosened due to excessive recoil

 

Now, i would like to buy the Blitzkreig Hydraulic Buffer - Standard or HD to reduce such recoil from my PCC rifle.

 

What to buy, the standard or HD? Do you have any idea what is the best set-up for my Primary Weapon System (PWS) PCC with 9.5" barrel?

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Orbit

[Bwillis]

@Orbit blitzkrieg recommends the 5150 hd for your barrel length. If you want to short stroke buy their 2.6oz weight and use it in front of the buffer. If you ss the blitzkrieg try the 308 carbine spring over the 308 rifle spring. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Bwillis

[mellino19]

@Orbit definitely go with the HD setup and spacer as @Bwillis said.

 

I run the 5015HD, 2.6oz weight, and a 308 JP rifle spring with 143pf 125gr loads (A8 verified PF) through a 16” barrel. Short stroke setup.

 

If you email blitzkrieg, Brian will tell you everything you need for the setup of your gun, sometimes buffer spring selection takes some trial and error but he’ll get you on the right patch.

 

I thought it was funny this post surfaced again this weekend on my notifications; I was shooting Area 8 EGW Championship in PA Friday and my 5015HD actually failed on my second stage but still ran great. Mid stage I noticed I could suddenly hear my buffer spring again yet my rifle was running fine and when I unbagged at the berm on the third stage I heard a “thunk” as I titled my rifle upward...I started bouncing it and could hear the buffer jostling around in the tube but guess who was up next to shoot? Me! I ran the stage without the gun hiccuping once. The cap of the piston that retains the buffer spring and separated from the rest of the assembly yet the gun still ran with what essentially became a 3.5 oz buffer!

 

I immediately emailed Blitzkrieg and they said they have updated the 5015HD recently to make improvements  and would send a new one to me ASAP. Thankfully I still had my 5007 (standard) buffer in the toolbox in my car from when I first started fiddling with my PCC and I threw that in my gun and finished the match. 

 

 

[Orbit]

Thanks Mellino and BWillis. Its just a bit confusing arming my PWS PCC 9.5” barrel rifle for proper functionality in actual competitions . Basically just starting up for PCC due to a lot of encouraging videos where the rifle barely moves and a lot of faster double taps when watching it.

 

do you guys have experience in this 9.5” barrel thing. My shoulder is sore until now due to last friday practice of just 550 rounds

[Orbit]

Good job Mellino in having a spare blitzkreig in your range bag...good luck to all your future comps

[mellino19]

20 hours ago, Orbit said:

Thanks Mellino and BWillis. Its just a bit confusing arming my PWS PCC 9.5” barrel rifle for proper functionality in actual competitions . Basically just starting up for PCC due to a lot of encouraging videos where the rifle barely moves and a lot of faster double taps when watching it.

 

do you guys have experience in this 9.5” barrel thing. My shoulder is sore until now due to last friday practice of just 550 rounds

 

Unfortunately I don't have experience with a 9.5" barrel but one thing I can tell you, and I'm sure you've seen others mention this, is that you'll have to do some testing with your spring selection and buffer set up in order to tune the whole rifle to your liking while keeping it reliable. Luckily buffer springs aren't that expensive. Blitzkrieg has descriptions with each buffer spring they offer on their website and give barrel lengths that pair well - as mentioned above, the 308 carbine spring is recommended for 7-16" barrels so should be a safe start. I'd say start with the JP 308 carbine or Sprinco Orange spring with the HD setup and weight and go from there.

[RaylanGivens]

On 8/25/2019 at 11:05 AM, Orbit said:

Thanks Mellino and BWillis. Its just a bit confusing arming my PWS PCC 9.5” barrel rifle for proper functionality in actual competitions . Basically just starting up for PCC due to a lot of encouraging videos where the rifle barely moves and a lot of faster double taps when watching it.

 

do you guys have experience in this 9.5” barrel thing. My shoulder is sore until now due to last friday practice of just 550 rounds

 

I use a 10.5 inch barrel and almost the same buffer system @Bwillis mentioned above...  I use their newer 2.54oz stainless steel weight...  It's a little smaller in diameter and slides easier in the receiver extension...  It also has cuts milled into it so it doesn't vacuum in the tube...  Running the JP AR10 Carbine spring.

 

[RaylanGivens]

On 8/25/2019 at 8:36 AM, mellino19 said:

I thought it was funny this post surfaced again this weekend on my notifications; I was shooting Area 8 EGW Championship in PA Friday and my 5015HD actually failed on my second stage but still ran great. Mid stage I noticed I could suddenly hear my buffer spring again yet my rifle was running fine and when I unbagged at the berm on the third stage I heard a “thunk” as I titled my rifle upward...I started bouncing it and could hear the buffer jostling around in the tube but guess who was up next to shoot? Me! I ran the stage without the gun hiccuping once. The cap of the piston that retains the buffer spring and separated from the rest of the assembly yet the gun still ran with what essentially became a 3.5 oz buffer!

 

I immediately emailed Blitzkrieg and they said they have updated the 5015HD recently to make improvements  and would send a new one to me ASAP. Thankfully I still had my 5007 (standard) buffer in the toolbox in my car from when I first started fiddling with my PCC and I threw that in my gun and finished the match.

 

What recent improvements have they made?  The last time I sent a buffer back, they had added a second setscrew to the end piece...  Haven't heard about any other improvements since then.

 

[mellino19]

21 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

What recent improvements have they made?  The last time I sent a buffer back, they had added a second setscrew to the end piece...  Haven't heard about any other improvements since then.

 

 

I don't know just yet, I was only told improvements were made, but I'll add photos when the new one arrives!

[Bwillis]

@mellino19 out of curiosity do you oil the blitz buffer? Also do you use the rear detent? 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Bwillis

[mellino19]

14 minutes ago, Bwillis said:

@mellino19 out of curiosity do you oil the blitz buffer?

 

 

I think I have a small amount of oil on it, it's the first version without the 3 flats and in a V7 buffer for a nice fit; Brian said if you don't have a really precise buffer, the older version can cause binding. I should have a better answer on the oiling but I installed it months ago and don't remember if I put any oil but I can say that when I took it out at the match Friday that it was slick with oil, however this could also be from the oil on the bolt spreading.

[mellino19]

@RaylanGivens my buffer is already here, that was quick. It looks like just the second set screw is the revision they made to it as you mentioned. 

[Orbit]

On 8/25/2019 at 8:36 AM, mellino19 said:

@Orbit definitely go with the HD setup and spacer as @Bwillis said.

 

I run the 5015HD, 2.6oz weight, and a 308 JP rifle spring with 143pf 125gr loads (A8 verified PF) through a 16” barrel. Short stroke setup.

 

If you email blitzkrieg, Brian will tell you everything you need for the setup of your gun, sometimes buffer spring selection takes some trial and error but he’ll get you on the right patch.

 

I thought it was funny this post surfaced again this weekend on my notifications; I was shooting Area 8 EGW Championship in PA Friday and my 5015HD actually failed on my second stage but still ran great. Mid stage I noticed I could suddenly hear my buffer spring again yet my rifle was running fine and when I unbagged at the berm on the third stage I heard a “thunk” as I titled my rifle upward...I started bouncing it and could hear the buffer jostling around in the tube but guess who was up next to shoot? Me! I ran the stage without the gun hiccuping once. The cap of the piston that retains the buffer spring and separated from the rest of the assembly yet the gun still ran with what essentially became a 3.5 oz buffer!

 

I immediately emailed Blitzkrieg and they said they have updated the 5015HD recently to make improvements  and would send a new one to me ASAP. Thankfully I still had my 5007 (standard) buffer in the toolbox in my car from when I first started fiddling with my PCC and I threw that in my gun and finished the match. 

 

 

 

Friends, i read the article in Blitzkrieg Components about the difference in application between 5007 standard and 5015 HD. The standard 5007 is for barrel like i have (9.5") buty cannot use for short stroke where i needed to prevent FTF. The HD 5015 is for short stroke. Maybe we just mislook the difference.

 

Final verdict please before buying it now on-line from ctcsupplies.

[Bwillis]

33 minutes ago, Orbit said:

 

Friends, i read the article in Blitzkrieg Components about the difference in application between 5007 standard and 5015 HD. The standard 5007 is for barrel like i have (9.5") buty cannot use for short stroke where i needed to prevent FTF. The HD 5015 is for short stroke. Maybe we just mislook the difference.

 

Final verdict please before buying it now on-line from ctcsupplies.

 

I don’t know what you read but on blitzkriegs site and in the description for the 5007 it states recommended for use in 7.5” barrel and less. The 5051hd is recommenced for 8” and above. If anything call or text Brian the owner of blitzkrieg, he has great customer service and has vast knowledge about what applications pair best with which buffer. 

https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RB5007

 

Quote from second paragraph in description of the 5007 

 

Our recommended barrel length for selecting this buffer is 7.5" or less. For barrels 8-16" we normally use the RB5015HD buffer, however we do have customers who like the feel of this buffer the best even with the 16" guns.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Bwillis

[mellino19]

34 minutes ago, Orbit said:

Final verdict please before buying it now on-line from ctcsupplies.

 

I’d say go with a 5007 and 308 carbine spring along with a new frontier spacer and adjust stroke with quarters behind spacer to avoid dents. Get a 308 rifle spring as well and play with different setups until you’re content. I’d say get the 2.56oz weight. PCC can difficult to tune to what you like but I say get everything all at once so you can go through your setups easily. 

 

Or give Brian at blitzkrieg a call and ask for his recommendation on your setup.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by mellino19

[Orbit]

8 minutes ago, Bwillis said:

 

I don’t know what you read but on blitzkriegs site and in the description for the 5007 it states recommended for use in 7.5” barrel and less. The 5051hd is recommenced for 8” and above. If anything call or text Brian the owner of blitzkrieg, he has great customer service and has vast knowledge about what applications pair best with which buffer. 

https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RB5007

 

Quote from second paragraph in description of the 5007 

 

Our recommended barrel length for selecting this buffer is 7.5" or less. For barrels 8-16" we normally use the RB5015HD buffer, however we do have customers who like the feel of this buffer the best even with the 16" guns.

 

7 minutes ago, mellino19 said:

 

I’d say go with a 5007 and 308 carbine spring along with a new frontier spacer and adjust stroke with quarters behind spacer to avoid dents. Get a 308 rifle spring as well and play with different setups until you’re content. I’d say get the 2.56oz weight. PCC can difficult to tune to what you like but I say get everything all at once so you can go through your setups easily. 

 

Or give Brian at blitzkrieg a call and ask for his recommendation on your setup.

 

 

Thanks. You both right

[Orbit]

I bought the 2 models for comparison. I will update once it arrives and tested.

[RaylanGivens]

17 hours ago, mellino19 said:

@RaylanGivens my buffer is already here, that was quick. It looks like just the second set screw is the revision they made to it as you mentioned. 

 

Thanks for the update...  My first 5015 had the head come loose...  Exchanged it for a new two-screw version and it has worked well ever since.

 

It's easy to test buffers, bolts, weights, and springs...  Just take them all with you to the range and swap them out...  If you're going to test several items, it helps to take notes so you can remember how things worked after you get home.