Time For Teams ?

[Zerwas]

I think that idea is awesome as well. Like ya'll said earlier, it would give the match a much different competitive dynamic!!!

[Flyin40]

It could be done

2010 Uspsa National Championship Team Challenge

Run it straight up as any 4 man team can enter. You could do it 2 ways, either Professional team class and Amatuer team class or everyone together. I would run it as everyone together the first yr until you see what type of teams would show up.

4 on a team regardless of divisions. Your percentage you finish is your pts. Add all 4 member pts together for total. 95%, 90%, 85% 75%= 345 match pts for your team. You could have 4 guys in Open or whatever division. I would do this to start with so that it would be easier for guys to get teams together.

One problem would be if there is a division that didn't have a big showing, say revolver but a 4 member team came in and took 1-4 in revolver they could win the match if the highest class revo shooter was a B. Personally that would be fine with me but others might have a problem with it.

It would get some sponsors to show up if you don't limit divisions. Say Sig or HK who really wouldn't have an Open team could enter with 4 in Production.

You would score it just like any other match so everyone would know where they finished individually then just take each team members finish to get a overall team score. That way there is not a big change in scoring system.

If you start limiting teams, divisions, cap system I think it will never work. What if a Sponsor can't put a team together because there is a cap limit or division limit?? What if a major sponsor wants to put a team in with 4 GM's?? Do you tell them "No" then ask them to still sponsor the match?

I like the idea, just another chance to beat that State up north some more

Flyin

[JimmyZip]

I like that idea Flying. That sounds like a fair and direct way to score the match.

Sounds like a lot of fun too.

Edited November 15, 2009 by JimmyZip

[Flyin40]

One way to fix the divisions that don't have a big turnout is to have a "1" or "3" Gm turnout for the division to count. I would say 1 for the first yr and see how it goes over.

Flyin

[Zerwas]

It could be done

2010 Uspsa National Championship Team Challenge

Run it straight up as any 4 man team can enter. You could do it 2 ways, either Professional team class and Amatuer team class or everyone together. I would run it as everyone together the first yr until you see what type of teams would show up.

4 on a team regardless of divisions. Your percentage you finish is your pts. Add all 4 member pts together for total. 95%, 90%, 85% 75%= 345 match pts for your team. You could have 4 guys in Open or whatever division. I would do this to start with so that it would be easier for guys to get teams together.

One problem would be if there is a division that didn't have a big showing, say revolver but a 4 member team came in and took 1-4 in revolver they could win the match if the highest class revo shooter was a B. Personally that would be fine with me but others might have a problem with it.

It would get some sponsors to show up if you don't limit divisions. Say Sig or HK who really wouldn't have an Open team could enter with 4 in Production.

You would score it just like any other match so everyone would know where they finished individually then just take each team members finish to get a overall team score. That way there is not a big change in scoring system.

If you start limiting teams, divisions, cap system I think it will never work. What if a Sponsor can't put a team together because there is a cap limit or division limit?? What if a major sponsor wants to put a team in with 4 GM's?? Do you tell them "No" then ask them to still sponsor the match?

I like the idea, just another chance to beat that State up north some more

Flyin

Just a thought, buy you know--this could happen at the Production challenge NavySteve........

[Joe4d]

Howabout,,,, 4 man teams any division, but the highest class competitor in the squad is the squads class. So a C and 3 D's would be a C class team, A GM and 3 C's would be a GM team, That would generate more interest than a straight up system, run it as a side scoring event to a normal match, The only issue would be coming up with a scoring formula.

[wgnoyes]

You already have the capability to register and score teams in ezwinscore. I've just never seen anyone actually do it outside of a world shoot.

[Flyin40]

The easiest way for everyone to understand would be to just use our system divided by team members

4 man team, each member = 25% of team

Team member 1 Gm Uspsa % 97% 97x.25=24.25

Team member 2 M Uspsa % 91% 91x.25=22.75

Team Member 3 M Uspsa % 85% 85x.25=21.25

Team member 4 B Uspsa% 62% 62x.25=15.50

Team class = 83.75 A class

All you would do is muliptly your Uspsa percentage by .25

Not sure how much this would add to stats.

Personally I like the straight up system.

Flyin

[Chris Keen]

Even easier to add everyones percentage and divide by 4 just once.

[Chris Keen]

So that classifies a team by letter (A,B,C,D,M,or GM). And if we can use each team members percentage of final scores by division to determine team finish. Then what are we waiting for?

[Flyin40]

Even easier to add everyones percentage and divide by 4 just once.

Yep thats what I did but I wanted to spell it out so everyone was on the same page. Same with results like you said.

I can see it now

Team member A "Okay we have a 89% and Team Smooth as Silk is in Master Team class. They have 3 GM and a sandbaggin A. We need to find a B class to pull our percentage down to A class so we can win the A team class and get really cool prizes"

Team member B "Yep, sounds good to me"

LMAO

Thats why I personally like the straight up team championship. 4 on a team, no classes. Take each members finish in the match...........

Flyin

Edited November 15, 2009 by Flyin40

[Flexmoney]

Note: I merged the similar threads together.

- Mod Squad

[Rob D]

Thanks for merging Flex.

I like the idea of a point cap system for classification much more than finding the average class of an entire team and assigning them one classification. First, with a team competition, it could be very difficult to have enough teams for the lower classes to even be competitive. Using one classification for each team would mean 6 seperate team divisions. Might be hard to get more than a couple of teams in the lower classes, but with a point cap system, you could mix and match as much as you want as long as your team doesn't go over the limit for that division. This way you could have 2-3 class divisions instead of six. \

I would be ok with 4man teams, but compiling results completely based off of match percentage could get crazy in the unpopular divisions where an A or B class shooter could shoot 100% depending on who else comes out to shoot. If you had one competitor per division at least everybody would be playing the same game as a team, instead trying to score 4 open shooters against 4 production shooters.

Do you guys think requiring each team have a shooter for each division would keep a lot of teams from coming to the match because they can't find a revo shooter?

Edit*** Also, how about doing 4man teams but requiring each team to have a Production, Limited, Open, and Singlestack shooter instead of letting them mix and match as long as they have 4 people. I know this would exclude some of the L10 and Revo guys, but it's just an idea. What do you guys think?

Edited November 15, 2009 by Rob D

[Flexmoney]

I think it ought to be...

- Heads-up. No classification worries.

- Within a division. It's a team, right? What kind of team can't get the team members on the same page?

- Best two scores, out of a team of 3 or 4. (for now, since participation will be small..this would allow for a team of 2)

Logistically, I can see the above having a shot of working. We could see a real run of CZ vs. Sig. vs. Glock vs. S&W...

[BritinUSA]

I think the teams should be 4 people all in the same division. Best 3 scores count. Add up the points from the top three and the highest point count wins. Same way they do it for IPSC Level 4/5 matches. Instead of National Teams we could have whatever team we wanted. Glock could have a team, your local shooting club could form a team, an all-girl team or an all-military team...

But its a straight heads-up.... I think the current EZ-WINSCORE program has an option for teams using that format doesn't it?

Edited November 15, 2009 by BritinUSA

[Flyin40]

Thanks for merging Flex.

I like the idea of a point cap system for classification much more than finding the average class of an entire team and assigning them one classification. First, with a team competition, it could be very difficult to have enough teams for the lower classes to even be competitive. Using one classification for each team would mean 6 seperate team divisions. Might be hard to get more than a couple of teams in the lower classes, but with a point cap system, you could mix and match as much as you want as long as your team doesn't go over the limit for that division. This way you could have 2-3 class divisions instead of six. \

I would be ok with 4man teams, but compiling results completely based off of match percentage could get crazy in the unpopular divisions where an A or B class shooter could shoot 100% depending on who else comes out to shoot. If you had one competitor per division at least everybody would be playing the same game as a team, instead trying to score 4 open shooters against 4 production shooters.

Do you guys think requiring each team have a shooter for each division would keep a lot of teams from coming to the match because they can't find a revo shooter?

Edit*** Also, how about doing 4man teams but requiring each team to have a Production, Limited, Open, and Singlestack shooter instead of letting them mix and match as long as they have 4 people. I know this would exclude some of the L10 and Revo guys, but it's just an idea. What do you guys think?

If a system was to be used it can't be complicated, the team thing would be for fun......A large majority of shooters will not have sponsors.

Actually I think it would be the opposite as far as lower classes being represented. Your going to have trouble getting GM teams. 4 members of a team have travel to a match that could be across the country and lets be honest sponsorship isn't going to be footing the bill for the entire trip for the whole team. There aren't that many guys on a true sponsorship. There might be a select few that would do it but not many. If the match became big enough that would be a different story. The majority of shooters would be local or at a state away. If you have a M, A, and 2 C class shooters that team will either be a C class or a low B. I agree with you that 6 different team classes is too many. You might only have 3 teams in a class at most. That would mean you would need 18 teams just to get that. That would be hard.

You wouldn't be putting Open teams against Prod teams, you would be putting final match % against each other. A cap system would make alot of people say forget it. Most just have some friends that want to make up a team and if you do any of that stuff then that won't happen and the teams won't happen.

I think what I proposed its the easiest so far but I'm still against it.

4 man team, straight up. Flex proposed 2 best scores of a 4 man team but I think we could easily get 10-15 teams at an Ohio match if it was promoted.

Flyin

[tazzdizzi]

Cheryl Leck used to do this at her match down in Waco. Basically, you get a group of guys, didn't matter the division, just your class. At the end of the match, add it up. Rich & his buddy Blake talk about it all the time.

Stef

[wgnoyes]

But its a straight heads-up.... I think the current EZ-WINSCORE program has an option for teams using that format doesn't it?

Yes, as I already said. Quoting the help from ezws on match setup:

Teams

If the teams will be entered in the match then this question should be answered Yes. If the answer is No then the option to name teams and to enter a team number during competitor registration will be disabled.

Number of team members

Enter the number of members on the team, including the alternate. The number entered must include an alternate in as much as the lowest scores of all team members will be dropped.

And from competitor registration:

If the match includes teams then the team number field will be visible. The team number and names that are displayed are those which were set up on the teams screen. If a previously defined team is not visible in the dropdown it is because the maximum number of team members as already been defined and is no longer available. Team 0, which indicates that the competitor is not a member of a defined team, is always available.

And from Team Setup

Teams

If the match supports teams then team names are entered, or edited on the Team Setup screen. Team numbers are assigned automatically. To add a name to the list of teams, click on the New button. To edit an existing team name click once on the name in the team list.

And then you print results out of "Final results by class, category, stage winners, or teams. I did this at an Area 6 3-gun a few years back, and then the MD said they didn't want to use it because they had previously announced something else, not realizing the program already did this.

[Flyin40]

But its a straight heads-up.... I think the current EZ-WINSCORE program has an option for teams using that format doesn't it?

Yes, as I already said. Quoting the help from ezws on match setup:

Teams

If the teams will be entered in the match then this question should be answered Yes. If the answer is No then the option to name teams and to enter a team number during competitor registration will be disabled.

Number of team members

Enter the number of members on the team, including the alternate. The number entered must include an alternate in as much as the lowest scores of all team members will be dropped.

And from competitor registration:

If the match includes teams then the team number field will be visible. The team number and names that are displayed are those which were set up on the teams screen. If a previously defined team is not visible in the dropdown it is because the maximum number of team members as already been defined and is no longer available. Team 0, which indicates that the competitor is not a member of a defined team, is always available.

And from Team Setup

Teams

If the match supports teams then team names are entered, or edited on the Team Setup screen. Team numbers are assigned automatically. To add a name to the list of teams, click on the New button. To edit an existing team name click once on the name in the team list.

And then you print results out of "Final results by class, category, stage winners, or teams. I did this at an Area 6 3-gun a few years back, and then the MD said they didn't want to use it because they had previously announced something else, not realizing the program already did this.

How about a push for teams at majors next yr and see how it works out. Its already in EZ so it really won't be added work. Everyone could let Match Directors know now that they would be interested before apps are available for 2010.

Flyin

Edited November 16, 2009 by Flyin40

[wgnoyes]

How about a push for teams at majors next yr and see how it works out. Its already in EZ so it really won't be added work. Everyone could let Match Directors know now that they would be interested before apps are available for 2010.

Well... would I be able to accept mixed division teams, or does 6.2.1 require teams be only within a division. I don't know....

6.2.1 USPSA Divisions recognize different handguns and equipment (see

Appendix D). Each match must recognize at least one Division. When

multiple Divisions are available in a match, each Division must be

scored separately and independently, and match results must recognize

a winner in each Division.

[wgnoyes]

And I happen to have one of the most prolific match organizers in the nation right here at home in the guise of Cindy, who works for GSSF, and they do team registrations at GSSF matches. They keep teams within divisions. They also have a separate form that competitors can download to fill in their team members and hand in at check-in at the match. That is, they don't pre-register teams. Reason behind that being they'd like people to make sure all their team members are actually at the match before going to the bother of setting them up.

[outerlimits]

sounds like a game of scramble in golf-except you can't drink while competing!

[Navysteve]

It could be done

2010 Uspsa National Championship Team Challenge

Run it straight up as any 4 man team can enter. You could do it 2 ways, either Professional team class and Amatuer team class or everyone together. I would run it as everyone together the first yr until you see what type of teams would show up.

4 on a team regardless of divisions. Your percentage you finish is your pts. Add all 4 member pts together for total. 95%, 90%, 85% 75%= 345 match pts for your team. You could have 4 guys in Open or whatever division. I would do this to start with so that it would be easier for guys to get teams together.

One problem would be if there is a division that didn't have a big showing, say revolver but a 4 member team came in and took 1-4 in revolver they could win the match if the highest class revo shooter was a B. Personally that would be fine with me but others might have a problem with it.

It would get some sponsors to show up if you don't limit divisions. Say Sig or HK who really wouldn't have an Open team could enter with 4 in Production.

You would score it just like any other match so everyone would know where they finished individually then just take each team members finish to get a overall team score. That way there is not a big change in scoring system.

If you start limiting teams, divisions, cap system I think it will never work. What if a Sponsor can't put a team together because there is a cap limit or division limit?? What if a major sponsor wants to put a team in with 4 GM's?? Do you tell them "No" then ask them to still sponsor the match?

I like the idea, just another chance to beat that State up north some more

Flyin

Just a thought, buy you know--this could happen at the Production challenge NavySteve........

IF you can come up with a good "workable" plan to do this I will try adding on a Team Award at the Production challenge.

[cold]

I think this would be a great idea, hopefully someone will start this up someplace.

[Charles Bond]

To repeat, what we really need is a proof of concept match. Want a team only match? Someone needs to hold it. Want teams added to an existing individual match? Show us there is demand by adding it.

Speaking only for myself, I have not seen the desire for this ................................yet. Seems to me it would be fun. I can see how there would be interested members. But if this is going to go, the MDs need to see more than just chatter on this thread about it.